Why does everyone bash The AUTO TOY STORE ?

Robin,
that is probably Philip in Ft. Myers. I have to tell him to stop doing that.


Vince:
"Thanks Martin. You are correct. I was mistaken. But the buyer and seller don't get it do they? I think the bank gets the benefit of the interest. Am I right?"

You are correct. Neither party really is entitled to anything. If there is interest flowing it has to be discussed in the transaction (contract) who will benefit from it. Once you open that can of worms you have fist fights. They can agree about that 1.5 Million Dollar house but not who gets the $120 interest on the escrow deposit. Pretty funny, when you see some of these guys.


That bad business man thing, I am just yanking your chain here. Hey I would not have made it here if I was that bad.

You buy something for $2000, sell it for $5000 and live of the 3% profit you made there

 

Bart,
that goes both ways!

But you are the way better photographer

 

Seem like Cavallino Motors and ECW guy had a civilized conversation here and got some rumors cleared up. Nice job in disscussing it and keeping your emotions under control.

 

Don't know if we got rumors cleared.

I hope Vince gets some cleared. It is those rumors that make it hard for all Florida dealers. Mr. Doody and lots of others would rather bite their toung than buy a car in Florida. For most that means passing also on cars from dealers like me.

This threat started about the Auto Toy Store. Lets not forget this. This is not about ECW. Toy Store is notorious. Most everybody in the industry knows it and they are still in biz.

 

Martin and Vince:

"I feel all warm and fuzzy inside now"

See ya at Cavallino...

Frank

 

I really appreciate everyone who participated in this discussion. Especially Martin.

I may not have cleared up all the questions, but I hope I made some people think. If anyone ever has a problem with our dealership, please contact me directly and I will take care of it personally.

Hope to see you all at Cavallino!

 

ECW Guy (Vince): I qualified my post with: there must be people who are happy with these businesses since they are still in business.

I said "Too many" people have lost deposits. One is one too many if done dishonestly in my book. If it's just cases of buyer's remorse and not your fault, I understand. (I am curious about Modman's deal & the others that I have heard about since it seems like trouble getting back deposits from ECW.) There are definitely 2 sides to every story. That said however, the impressions I have gotten from this chat board as well as discussions with others is that ECW is a more 'scary' place to do business. Be it due to the 'must have a deposit' issue, not having the car issue, not having a lot of info on the cars you sell, sometimes not even seeing the cars you sell, customer difficulties recovering deposits from ECW, etc.... you have to admit, that's a potentially much more risky transaction than to deal with someone who can show you a car that's on their premesis.

I have been to your showroom. I have even attempted to buy a few cars from ECW over the years (never have though). I have had mixed results from my dealings with ECW. Everyone smiles, is friendly and seems willing to help - no issues there. Even the owner seems like a really nice guy. However, within that time period, I have personally dealt with the 'must have a deposit' issue, no car info issue, car is not there issue, ECW raised the asking price of a car $2k after quoting me a price, preferred I didn't take a car to Shelton for a PPI since ECW thought Shelton would 'look for problems' in order to sell me one of their own cars. Additionally, I watched some of ECW's ebay auctions where it appeared related parties (under different e-bay names) placed dummy bids on your own cars.

Your showroom has had some very nice cars. Additionally, like I said, I really liked the people I have met there. However, If, and only if, there was a car that I wanted that ECW had in it's possession for me to see, get inspected where I wanted it to be inspected for PPI, and pay for it in exchange for the title would I do business there. Otherwise, it's just a 'scary' deal, that I would rather be safe than sorry over.

My only point is that there are plenty of other dealers out there that don't have the 'scary' parts attached to the business dealings with them. They have good reputations and have no 'stories' lurking (true or untrue).

 

Iluv4res,

Thanks for the input. Glad you liked our showroom and our people. Sorry you felt uncomfortable.

I've addressed the deposit issue earlier in this thread, so I'm not going to rehash it again.

As for Shelton, we love them. The salesman are close friends and we do tons of business, service and otherwise. It has been our experience, however, (and this has been verifyed to me by an individual at Ferrari who will remained unnamed) that Ferrari dealers in general will always try to find things that have to be done to a car (including major service) so they can make money from thier service dept., which is where most of them make their money. I'm sure many forum members have experienced this.

Having said that, we are happy to have our cars inspected by anyone, without exception.

When buying a Ferrari or other exotic, as you know, its not always easy to find what you want. If you want a Honda, there are problably 5 dealerships in your area with the same car that will compete for your business. When you want a 2003 Black/Tan 360 F1 spider that must have shields and mod wheels, there may only be 2 for sale in the entire country. Some people are comfortable buying a car they don't see, others, like you, are not. Everyone has their own preference, and we try to make them happy. But as the old saying goes, you can't please everyone, so some people, like yourself, don't buy. We're sorry we miss the sale, but we hope you got the car you wanted.

Finally, to repeat. Bring me specific information about any deal we did, and I'll be glad to produce documentation supporting the truth about what happened.

Thanks for your post and you interest.

 

If Shelton is doing a PPI, they have a RESPONSIBILITY to inform the potential buyer of any issues. A PPI is not designed to "Blow your deal up", it's designed to protect, both the buyer and seller. At $350, a PPI is not a huge profit center for dealers, it's a courtesy.

 

ECWGuy (Vince); Thanks for your response. Also, by the way, welcome to F-chat!!!

In my opinion, although F-car dealers may get a lot of $ from service, a PPI SHOULD BE an all inclusive, detailed inventory of what should be done and/or what issues the car has. When I have a PPI done, I want to know everything, so there are no surprises. That's what I'm paying for! Suggesting service (belt changes for example) that are subjective have been debated to death on this board, but as a buyer, I would still want to know this important information. It's not designed to kill your deals. If anything, having a FULLY INFORMED buyer can only help your dealership in the long run. Getting the good, bad and ugly prior to purchasing eliminates surprises after the fact that could make customers unhappy with the transaction with ECW. When ECW tells someone (like I was told) that a PPI can't be done at Shelton, it makes me suspect. As much as you could think Shelton would look for issues, a dealer selling a car would MORE likely try to keep issues from appearing. To your point about there only being 2 of a desired car for sale in the country: that makes it more likely that the car won't be staying local to where the PPI was done, so less likely to be service oriented than objective.

Yes, I'm sure there are plenty of people who run with their emotions so much that they are willing to do business regardless of the risks/issues. This is evidenced by people who send $10k to somewhere in Nigeria in expectation of some rediculous return, etc., etc., etc.

Emotions, emotions, emotions. Then the reality. I think that's where the issues become potential problems. The issues posted about ECW (deposits, buying/selling sight-unseen, lack of knowledge about the product, PPI issues, price changes, etc.) are what I would expect at a buy-here-pay-here used car lot. Long term business success is based upon a good reputation (especially in large $ amounts, perhaps geographically difficult, riskier transactions). You guys now seem to have a nice showroom, some nice salespeople and a nice owner. This all adds up to excellent business potential. I really think you guys are shooting yourselves in the foot with the other schenanigans.

 

ECW Guy.......(RW) no names mentioned.....will look for you at Cavallino. Regards to your lovely wife.
Paul Bianco

 

Iluv4res,

Thanks again for the posts. You are very well spoken and well informed.

There are no other shenangans (sp?). We are good honest nice people. Sometime deals don't work out. SOmetimes things don't happen fast enough, and some things are out of our control. The problem is that reality is not reality, perception is reality. If someone, in a deal with us, has the perception that, for instance, we're selling a car we don't have, but the truth is that the owner of the car, who gave it to us on consignment, decided not to sell it. What are we to do? We tell the truth. If they choose to believe a different version, we have no control over that.

You are right, we are in this business for the long run. We have lots of happy repeat customers. But I guess we can't please everyone, even though we try.

Every business has people who don't like them. I know people who absolutly think Shelton are theives, but that doean't cloud my opinion of them, and nothing I can tell them about how good Shelton is, will change their mind.

As for the inspection issue we always encourage people to have their cars inspected and we use Shelton for those ispections all the time. However we also use Tim Stanford and John at JCM.

Next time your in the market for a car I hope you'll give us another shot. We've gt alot of spectcular Ferraris in the showroom right now.

Until then, thanks for the input , and the welcome!

 

Paulie B

RW is in Scottsdale for Barrett Jackson and will not be at Cavallino, but I will sned your regards

 

ECW, please do that.

 

Blah Blah Blah.

Simple cut to the chase: Do NOT buy an exotic car from ANY dealer in Florida. A clean title in FL means nothing, as it may well have been washed. My personal experience was with a Porsche from "The Collection" in FL, that on very detailed examination was NOT as advertised.

Do a search in just about any sports car forum on Florida cars & the gist will be: Look elsewhere.

 

Funny,
most of my cars have the original titles from thier States. The yellow 355 has a NC title (no wait, I am lying, it has the original first owner FL title.)

The 355 in question here has a NJ title

The 355 with 102K Miles has the original owner FL title

The 308GTS I just bought has a CA title

The 308GT4Comp has a PA title, now I just transferred that to a FL title.

The 328 I have has a NC title.


BTW most title washes that are happening here are happening with GA titles. I do not quite get your point.

You mean you are more comfortable buying a car with a lets say AZ title from an AZ dealer although the car in its history could have traded 5 times between FL dealers?


I mean what you are referring to is some of the lax laws concerning dealer deposits and dealer liability. Her eis the hint and clue to all of that: GET IT IN WRITTING! NO ORAL: REPRESENTATION IS A VALID CONTRACT!

It says that in bolt letters on my contracts. You have to sign not one but 2 AS-IS riders. You get the odometer statement.

I mean sometimes you just have to use common sense. Just sending someone money without doing your due-diligence is nuts but it is nutz in any State.

just my 2c.

 

Ok, my input (a 15-year litigation attorney) who has only bought one stolen car in his career (Lotus turbo Esprit from LA) is to buy in your home state. No kidding. If the deal goes south, it is much, much eaisier and more cost effective to negotiate, litigate, compromise, retain counsel, etc. in your home state (backyard) as oppossed to trying to undo a deal from across the country. I would pay a premium ($5k) to buy an exotic in my home state (California) for that extra security of knowing my seller is nearby and I can personally investigate them and deal with them after the sale, if the deal falls through. That being said, I have heard voluminous negative remarks regarding exotic car dealers in Florida. Seems it makes it tough on the legitimate Florida dealers....

Dino.

 

It does but mostly because of the misconceptions like David.

At only you home State you are passing on a lot of other dealers out there.

The problem lies with, that dealers anywhere are not willing to do the right thing anymore. Mainly because they too have been taken advantage of by their customers. I remember one of my own cases. Guy bought a 348Spider sight unseen, had no PPI done although I told him to and when the car came was okay. Called me 1 month after and told me he had the car at ALGAR and this and this and this was wrong. If I don't pay he will sue me.

 

I don't quite know why everyone trashes Florida - Georgia is a nightmare, at least it has been for me looking to buy a Mercedes and a Piper aircraft. So is NY. Do we attract more shady characters because of our liberal bankruptcy laws or is it all a bunch of crap? What I'm trying to say is that I've bought high end items all over the country, and no one place was really any different than elsewhere. The attorney is right though - trying to litigate in another state is damn near useless, unless you are ready to move there. I am currently trying to recover 3k in New York, and it's not pretty.

 

[ I was visiting one of the Exotic car dealerships in S. Fla (Not ECW) and I brought up the name ECW. The salesman there told me to stay away from them because they advertize cars they do not even own and will try to get a deposit out of you for a car they do not have.

QUOTE=Cavallino Motors]Vince you certainly talk well.
Even looks like you are a nice guy.
Hey, you may be the guy to go to at ECW if you do not do all the things that others are accusing you.

The deal you describe I would probably not deal with the guy and tell him he should get his financing in order and we talk in 3 weeks. If the car is sold we'll find him another. As for the service needing to be done I handle it, you buy the car and we pay the service. If the car is priced right he will pay for the service or if he feels better we will pay for the service after he bought it. We have done both with our mechanic before.
If the car needs a service (like our yellow one) we do it before we even offer the car. Aftermaket wheels, get them yourself and have them put on the car. Why should a dealer get involved. To make another couple of hundred $$$? I sell cars not wheels.

As for the blue car:
please send me the phone number of the owner. that crashed the car. I would love to talk to him. e-mail me direct at [email protected]
I am sure you value Shelton as a reputable dealer. Why would they certify the car had no frame damage and you claim it has?

As for deposits, Shelton for example does not take deposits on car orders. This was at least a few months back.

As far as Modman, as I said go deep into the archives and you will find more than just Modman. You will find others that had the same problem with you guys. That may just have been that when there were 1000 Users a year back that we found all 3 where that ever happened that ECW held their deposit? Yes, it may. Highly unlikely though, I am sure you agree.

Yes, Vince, you will never be able to make everybody happy. Yes, there are bad customers that try to rip you off, I had my share as well and yes, they will talk bad about you.

Here is a great way to make it right for you. Get in touch with Rob. Get Modman to have a discussion with you and clear up the unresolved item. Since you are talking legal, the burden of proof lies with you, although here you are the accused.

As far as me not knowing how to run a business, yep very likely.

Vince, when I am up that way I will call you and we will get together.[/QUOTE]

 

I live in Florida...and would rather pay premium for a car that is from Florida...I think anyone feels that way.. lol you feel better when you can touch the car...
I can say that i will never buy a North car because the salt on the roads in the winter ruins the cars...and California cars are driven hard...and Texas cars are over exposed to sun.... These are all assumptions and stereotypes...lol bottom line people need to stop buying cars so naive!

 

Exotic Car wholesale

Red flag #1 - $5,000 deposit

Red flag #2 - "we are not set up to take credit cards"

Red flag #3 - lots of deals too good to be true in autoweek


red flag #1.... I have bought a few cars, and delt with 10 dealers in Florida....no one else ever asked for a deposit. What a f*cking joke!

red flag #2.... credit cards allow a customer some great protection. A business has to go wayyyyyyyy out of their way!!! not to be set up to take credit cards. (I know girl scouts that take credit cards for cookie sales. Give me a break!). ECW has millions of dollars in inventory in a expansive showroom and they aren't sophisticated enough to set up a credit card account. What a big joke! What's wrong guys?

red flag #3 ..... there is a sucker born every minute. all you have to be willing to do is run an ad (a few thousand under market price) and you will get a lot of out-of-state guys with more money then common senses for leads each month. All in a hurry to hook-in that "too good to be true deal". Very shady but very easy to do. Does ECW do this? Looks like they do... but I am just a guy that buys and shops for cars. I am no expert. I am just expressing some observations that look creepy.. but it is just my opinion.


Auto Toy Store- They don't even hide the wrecks they buy. I will never forget the 2 broken down Lambos in the back lot, one white and one black. Two weeks later they looked stunning in there showroom floor and I had a sales guy telling me they are perfect cars.

Why does Auto Toy Store have a bunch of broken and slightly wrecked cars in the back lot, and then a month later a bunch of cleaned up cream puffs on the show room floor?

Its just my experience of going there every few weeks... but this is what I've seen. Maybe I'm wrong? But I enjoy the web, its nice for the customers to be able to share experience. We can put all this data together and at least get a sense of whether we want to deal with these guys that say "you can trust us on your big ticket expenditures"
I can say one thing positive about Auto Toy Store (besides that they have a great showroom) they are the best at waxing and making old cars paint look new! They do some great wax jobs.

Small Dealer- Martin
Martin is a great guy. I would highly recommend buying a car in Florida from Him.

Big dealer- Shelton.
Bud Root
Great guy... if you want to buy from a factory dealer in Florida... I can't say enough good things about Shelton.

4 dealers in Florida. I get a great positive vibe from two of them. I get a huge negative feel from the other two.


Prestige? I went there once... and I talked to an older guy(that liked old P-cars) he seemed like a great salesman, but I haven't formed any opinion positive-or-negative about them. Just went to look at the new Gallardo. They were happy to show it too me, and offered a test drive.
I had a nice time. But... they do have a 308 with gold rims that they just don't seem to be able to give away

 

Mark: Your comment:
red flag #2.... credit cards allow a customer some great protection. A business has to go wayyyyyyyy out of their way!!! not to be set up to take credit cards. (I know girl scouts that take credit cards for cookie sales. Give me a break!). ECW has millions of dollars in inventory in a expansive showroom and they aren't sophisticated enough to set up a credit card account. What a big joke! What's wrong guys?



I do not take credit cards either. Never made the application because I do nto need to. I do not ask you for a deposit so don't worry about how you can secure yorself

 

Hi guys, about 2 years ago I went to Auto Toy Store, as a Brooklyn New York resident and avid auto enthisiast I can say that I am pretty good at telling if a car was hit or repainted. Let me tell you ATS was selling cars repainted and I could tell easily. Maybe because My best freind owns a body shop here in Brooklyn. Anyhows, I usualy wear shorts and a T-shirt. I was just browsing and the service stunk. Because I was so fustrated at seeing such poor examples of high end quality in Florida autos I ended up purchasing a new 02 M3 cabrio. Its not a Ferrari but I was treated with respect and not looked at becasue if my age or what watch I wore. All I wanted was to be treated and questions answered properly, is that hard?

 

How can you expect to get questions answered from people that don't know these cars. Some of those guys sold Nissans before, some peddled stocks but they don't know their cars. Heck I love Ferrari but I can not help you with a 60s or older Ferrari. Becasue I don't know them either.