Why so much Cali hate?

Umm...you're a little late. Aston was sold early this year to David Richards (ProDrive) and a group of investors.

Jimmy

 

>> Aston Martin sold...

So in a few years a proper Aston may take the stage. Until then, it's silly to compare one to a Ferrari.

 

Simple, TOTAL REBODY. PERIOD!

 

The car is nice. I kinda like it. But it will be a crap box in the long term like the rest of Ferrari's junk. These cars are not built for enthuists anymore. They are built for metro sexuals and hair dressers that want to look important.

 

In my opinion, some people are taking the cult of hatred for the California far too seriously and far. My God. It's a fu cking car! It shares carlike traits with other cars because it's a car! Convertibles have been made before! Ferrari has made FAR uglier cars than this one! Go have a drink!

 

FWIW, I wasn't comparing the Aston to a Ferrari. I just like them. I also like the Cali.

 

I think that CharlieHorse makes a very valid comment. gbakowsky and a host of others complain that Ferraris are not built for enthusiasts anymore, and the rest comment how ugly the Cali is. Hey guys, Ferraris were never really "built for enthusiasts." They were built to finance Enzo's race team. That they worked for enthusiasts is due pretty much to two factors. Mr. Ferrari was financing a race team, so his enthusiasm for racing naturally bled through. Plus what else could you or can you get? Probably the only marque whose products one could fairly say have been consistently built for enthusiasts is Lotus. If they weren't so damn small, (or if I was not so damn big ), that is what I would drive. I may go there yet, and keep the Mondial as my sunny day cruiser.

And CharlieHorse is damn sure correct that Ferrari has built several much more ugly cars. Some of the early cars are downright weird looking. Nowadays they are appreciated, but only because of the reflected glory of their stable mates like the GTO. Hey, let's see one of you wizards design a car that looks as stunning as a Dino and still does everything the Cali does. Good luck.

Sure a lightweight body would be really nice, but I would still want the big trunk and room behind the front seats, so the profile would stay about the same, plus the only way to really lighten it up would be to lose the convertible so that the rest of the structure would not have to be so sturdy. So, see, for what it is, it really is a pretty amazing piece of work.

 

Comparing any Mondial to a 400 is kinda pointless, they both give a very different driving sensation. Probably the reason I have an 8 and 365 GT/4.

 

The Enzo is FAR from the best looking Ferrari, Maybe they should have paid more attention to the original California

The 550/575 is a great looking car and its a modern Daytona, a great example of what F should have done w the Cali

 

Nonsense! Comparing a *t* to a 400 makes perfect sense: they are remarkably similar: 2+2, about 300 hp, and about 3500 lbs. Only the t comes out on top, lighter and with a better power to weight ratio, *and* much more cost effective! The only thing missing is the 12's secondary characteristics: low end torque and sound , but not worth the price of admission with those numbers. See? You effed up by buying two items on either side of the curve: an underpowered 8 and an overpriced 365, when you could have had the best of both, the sweet spot, the Mondial t!

 

Track both, then tell me they are the same.

 

OOOhh! Apparently you haven't heard the nickname for the t coupe: the *Stealth Fighter* I hear there's a guy out here with one who regularly trounces the local 348s! Tracking ability was not part of my comparison as I have no intention of putting my cab on the track, except to maybe get a little practice at higher speeds. What was your point here anyway: I haven't hear much about 400s on the track, did I miss something?

 

A 550 is not a 2+2 or a coupvertible. It's unreasonable to expect that kind of sleekness for this level of function.

 

Driving dynamics are both very different, and I expect the Cali to be different as well.

 

+1

This sort of misses the point. The F430 is being sold alongside the California. So if you want the most modern, best driving Ferrari, you can just buy that enthusiasts' car.

That's the whole reason people are discussing the California's appearance and purpose.

As far as Honda and the 348, that's a separate set of issues. The early 348s were a problematic, transitional time for Ferrari. Honda swooped in and did a technically better car. Then they let it die on the vine, which is too bad as it was the high watermark for Japanese sports cars, IMO.

 

Ah, that is my whole point about the Cali, my intuitive take on the Cali packaging is that it will be even more fun on the streets, for "enthusiasts" if you will, than both the demanding mid-engined cars and the heavier 12s.

 

Since when were all of Ferrari's cars, new and old, all "enthusiast's cars?" What does that mean anyway? You can't be enthused to drive a convertible? I would think that driving a convertible, very fast, by the ocean, with a Ferrari V8, is about one of the most enthusiastic driving experiences I can imagine.


From the driver's reviews of the California, it's not short on street performance and fun.

 

I posted the first design sketches I've seen (from Auto & Design magazine) of the Cali in the Showroom section:

http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/showpost.php?p=138286885&postcount=134

 

HEY! I got an idea.
Get rid of all of the smooth curves on the car, add a bunch of sharp angles and evil looking radiator intakes and tell the world you'll only build 40 of them and sell each for 1.5 mill.

Short production run with adequate profit. With exclusivity like that there will be no room for hate towards the car and threads like this on Fchat

 

Haven't seen the car in person so I have to reserve judgment. It doesn't make my heart thump. (the F40 made my heart thump way before I saw it in person) Beauty is in the eye of the beholder after all. Taste is a matter of taste.

I think F made a mistake by not having a 12 cyl engine or at least 10 cyl...and it's not as powerful as the 430 though supposedly quicker. but it has a dead spot in the stearing...very un-Fcar like. Can't imagine I'd like that (hated it in my 1989 750iL)

And of course driving a car is the final test. but I doubt if it would be my choice.

 

Well, any Ferrari that offers a " Glamour Package" would seem to be tilted away from a performance focused intent. I don't know what this package entails, but it conjures up the image of Paris Hilton behind the wheel.

 

the best Ferraris have always offered automotive styling considered art, people would just be enamoured with the looks and its a thrill to see one in person, face it you can buy cars that are faster and perform better and are much less expensive to maintain so the stunning looks are an important aspect of the cars package, Ferraris from the past that have failed in the looks department have always had poor resale values even though in there day they were good perfomers, you can get them cheap for a reason, concerning the 599 I thought the car is homely when it came out and my opinion still hasn't changed, when Ferrari was doing the world tour with it and stopped here the top exec commented he was a bit hurt no one gave the 599 the time of day or paid attention to it, granted this was at an Fiat parent equipment event but many participants there were paying attention to the local clubs cars we brought instead

 

The December 2008 issue of FORZA (#90, pg 68) quotes the June 1960 Road & Track Ferrari 250 Pininfarina Coupe test article, saying "[t]his is a car designed by enthusiasts for enthusiasts, and it shows".

While the whole contemporaneous Ferrari range suffers from dilution of that ideal, the California 2+ diverges absolutely, it is a car designed by FIAT's marketing mavens for well-heeled chavs and their doxies.

 

LOL! Busted!!!

 

Perhaps true for that car but Ferrari sold more 4 seaters in the 60's than 2 seaters and they were clearly not designed for ultimate performance.

I was at the Cali unveiling in Santa Monica in Sept. with a couple of my friends. One of the other guys also owns a 430 like me and we agreed we would not give up our 430's to get a Cali. However, we are not Ferrari's target audience for this car. They are looking for buyers who would not want a 430 and hope to steal buyers from Aston, Bentley, Benz, etc. To that end, I think it is a great product. Look at it objectively: big performance, folding hard top versatility, 7 speed F1, cc brakes and Ferrari panache. All for less than 200K supposedly.

As for looks, it does look much better in person but does not make my knees weak as did the ex-Cowburn Cali SWB when I frequently saw it when it had a Colorado owner. But I certainly think it looks better than Mondials, C/4's or 330 GT's.

Dave