Why the 250 GTO?

Discussion in 'Vintage (thru 365 GTC4)' started by ag512bbi, Feb 25, 2018.

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  1. NürScud

    NürScud F1 Veteran

    Nov 3, 2012
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    IIRC around $50 million but that's not confirmed.
     
  2. TTR

    TTR Formula 3
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    How many of these "price range" or "private sale" figures were or can actually be verified or are they based on just assumptions/rumors/speculation, like most of these types of debates seem to be ?
    Just curious. People seem to throw all these numbers around publicly, but how many (here ?) has actually seen the sale contracts or receipts ?

    BTW Mods, shouldn't this thread be moved to accompany the endless list of all other similar ones on "Market (speculation)" section ?
     
  3. Timmmmmmmmmmy

    Timmmmmmmmmmy Formula 3

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    Several public (and private) transactions back to the 1980s
    1981 - Buxbaum advertised #4091GT at $285k
    1987 - Christies sold 330GTO #4561SA for approx $1.5 million at their Monaco sale
    1989 - Takeo Kato is quoted as having purchased #3809GT privately for almost $20 million (THE record pre 2000s sale)
    1990 - Sotheby's sold #3607GT at $9.6 million (later said to be a fake sale)
    1991 - The Auction Las Vegas sold #3769GT at $5.775 million (later claimed to be fake) & Poulain failed to sell #3445GT at a reported highbid of $5.3 million in Paris
    1992 - World Vintage car Tokyo attempted to sell #3769GT (once again) without success
    1993 - Brandon Wang purchased #4219GT for $3 million
    1996 - Symbolic Motors advertised #3445GT at $3.5 million
    2000 - Brooks failed to sell #4293GT for a high bid of roughly $10 million while other cars reportedly sold for around the $6 million amount
    2008 - Marcel Massini was quoted in MSM about #5111GTs sale for $52 million (or not as the case may be)
    2009 - RM offered #4675GT at $18 - 20 million through private treaty
    2010 - Mike Sheehan wrote that Tom Price sold #3943GT to Charles Nearburg for $26 million, Price then bought #4757 for mid teens ($15 million?) from Fritz Kroymans creditors
    2012 - John Collins of Talacrest was quoted by the MSM for his role in the sale of #3505 for a reported $35 million and the same articles spoke of #5575GT selling to Rob Walton for a similar amount while #5095GT was recorded as selling for $32 million
    2013 - A rather infamous collector paid $42 million for #4675GT according to some media
    2014 - Bonhams set a new world record when #3851 sold for $38.1 million at Quail Lodge while the Bardinon families GTO/64 #5573 was reportedly bought by a North American collector for circa $48 million (as covered in the 55th anniversary tour thread)

    Absolutely, talk of multiple $50 million plus sales but nothing confirmed, yet

    Auctions companies love the attention that a world record gets them, even if just a high sale for a model, some dealers like John Collins like the free publicity too and the MSM loves to print press releases bragging of a world record sale. That being said many buyers and sellers are turned off by such things and they use a broker, with perhaps five private sales for every public sale and I am reliably assured that at this level the seller has all the leverage and can enforce any clause, including a non disclosure agreement. Some buyers will also demand the same level of privacy......
     
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  4. wbaeumer

    wbaeumer F1 Veteran
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    Mar 4, 2005
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    And you forgot #3809GT that was sold in Sept. 2016 for Euro 45m plus commission.
     
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  5. michael platzer

    michael platzer F1 Veteran
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    i am sure that if the 330 P4 0856 would ever come to the market it would set a new record for Ferrari - and even any car - sales.

    Best looking ferrari ever, beat Ford at Daytona and only one left in original configuration.
     
  6. wbaeumer

    wbaeumer F1 Veteran
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    Yes, I agree because no record is forever! But this thread is related to GTO(s)....
     
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  8. miurasv

    miurasv F1 Veteran
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    #32 miurasv, Mar 1, 2018
    Last edited: Mar 1, 2018
    How much was the commission and is the total amount verifiable? If not it seems the highest verifiable figure is the $38.1m that Monteverde paid for 3851????

    3387, an important GTO as the first one raced, and by NART to a class win at Sebring (2nd OA) with Hill (P) and Gendebien driving was for sale with an asking price of $55m for a year with Talacrest and didn't sell. I can only guess that it subsequently sold later for less???

    I'd just like to know where the $70m figure comes from????
     
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  9. Timmmmmmmmmmy

    Timmmmmmmmmmy Formula 3

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    You are correct, $38.1 million is the highest confirmed sale and everything since then is part truth, claim and rumour. As for the $70 million figure, if #3387GT was worth $55 million and #3851 38 million then a car like #4293 which finished 2nd at Le Mans and still has its original coachwork must be a $70 million car at least. When offered in 2000, several ordinary GTO had sold for $6 million and #4293 was estimated at $12 million or more so if its still double the cheapest then maybe $75 million would be ballpark.
     
  10. malcolmjl

    malcolmjl Karting

    Mar 27, 2014
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    People saw the markets climbing and assumed that the trend had continued when in fact prices leveled off. I think its safe to say the cars are hovering at $40m - $50m depending on history, without any significant change since 2014. There may be one or two cars that are an exception to those prices but they're outliers.
     
  11. ag512bbi

    ag512bbi F1 Veteran
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    I agree on all of the above!
     
  12. Terra

    Terra Formula 3
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    You have the currency incorrect.
     
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  13. wbaeumer

    wbaeumer F1 Veteran
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    No, it was in Euro! Why should the former German owner sell his car in another currency than Euro?
     
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  15. wbaeumer

    wbaeumer F1 Veteran
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    I know the commision but please ask Simon Kidston about it. He managed the sale to the new Italian owner who resides in Switzerland. The 45m Euros are true and I know the former owner very well since 22 years!
     
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  16. Terra

    Terra Formula 3
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    You’re incorrect.
     
  17. Terra

    Terra Formula 3
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  18. Tspringer

    Tspringer F1 Veteran

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    Insanely wealthy people looking for ever increasing status and recognition. Want to be a true "Master of the Galaxy" - stick a GTO in the garage. This is all about "The right crowd - and no crowding".
     
  19. Terra

    Terra Formula 3
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    When Kidston originally received 3809 GT on consignment in early-2016, Kidston’s initial asking price (50 million) was in U.S. Dollars, not Euros.
     
  20. wbaeumer

    wbaeumer F1 Veteran
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    Ok, lets do it this way:

    on Febr. 2nd, 2016 (as an example for being "in early 2016") US$50m were Euro 46,032,000m. As you said US$50m was Kidston`s "initial" asking price....
    The then time owner H.I. was not interested in a sale based on US$s.
     
  21. miurasv

    miurasv F1 Veteran
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    #44 miurasv, Mar 3, 2018
    Last edited: Mar 3, 2018
    3809.

    Just checked my records. I was told by an excellent source that the price Bertarelli paid was $45m. Judging from Kidston's rates (which are flexible) in the link Terra posted Kidston's cut would have been deducted from that. The amount could have been a percentage figure on the sliding scale, a negotiated amount of that sliding scale or Ibing may have specified a net return figure and Kidston kept the rest.
     
  22. nschots

    nschots Karting
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    All said above it´s true. The GTO, besides it´s beauty (not the most beautiful IMO), and racing history (not the winningest F car), has it all. It has been the drivers car during the sixties. It´s a racing car which can be used on the street. It´s like thinking it as a frenetic big brother of the other perfection called SWB.
    But most of all, from the 2000 and go on, it´s part of the Club. And that´s no discussion on here about it, we all know about it.
    But that´s because there is only one recognized club above all the rest. The GTO club.
    Being said that, i really think that talking about beauty and racing, the 315/335S should worth more than the GTO. It won more, and it´s much more beautiful (in my opinion).
    What about 0792 TR and 0794 TR? And the 59/60s TR´s? The Henn´s 275?
    Anyway.. i really think there are at least 10 or 15 cars that should worth more than the GTOs. But hey, they don´t have their own club.. and that´s the difference.
    Nico.
     
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  23. BMW.SauberF1Team

    BMW.SauberF1Team F1 World Champ

    Dec 4, 2004
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    Is 3387 the most recently sold GTO? It sold in early December apparently, which was after the contract expired for Talacrest to sell it. It must have went for less than the initial asking price of $55mm or whatever base currency the asking price was at the time, but any idea by how much? I don't really care for an exact number or who owns it for that matter. Just a ballpark...
     
  24. Terra

    Terra Formula 3
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    Sold for somewhere in the low-$40s rumor has it.
     
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  25. miurasv

    miurasv F1 Veteran
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    Did BC sell 3387 himself or was it was sold by a dealer/broker?
     
  26. Terra

    Terra Formula 3
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    Sold by people in the trade.
     
  27. miurasv

    miurasv F1 Veteran
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    Thank you. Which people may I ask?
     

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