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  1. bundas

    bundas F1 Veteran
    Rossa Subscribed Owner

    Dec 31, 2005
    6,887
    lexington ky usa
    Full Name:
    mitchell barnes
    darn cables.. has anyone fitted gear drive conversion
     
  2. SouthJersey400i

    SouthJersey400i Formula 3
    Silver Subscribed

    Mar 14, 2007
    1,067
    Shamong, NJ
    Full Name:
    Ken Battle
    When I bought my car the driver's window did not work. Couple between motor and gearbox was broken. Part was only $50 but it broke because the DPO had cables wound the wrong way. Once I pulled the opposite door panel I saw the light. It took two weekends to get cable sorted out but that was 5 years ago and I have not touched it since.
    Ken
     
  3. tr0768

    tr0768 Formula Junior

    Oct 28, 2008
    635
    maltby wa
    Full Name:
    Howard Musolf
    The system while looking confusing, is rather simple. I rebuilt the window systems in my 308. I found a few interesting issues with the "idler's". These were very sticky with old hard grease. I dissasembled them, cleaned and relubricated. I used a very light weight sewing machine oil. This oil offers excellent lubrication, with out getting hard or collecting contamination.

    I also removed all rollers,plus window track and cleaned them. I then lightly oiled those parts with the light sewing machine oil and reassembled. I replaced both original motors with new replacement units. Going through the electrical system I found issues with grounds and voltage with the switches and motors.

    I cleaned all ground connections and made sure they had continuity. Then I cleaned the switches and contacts at the switches. I also found a votlage drop betwen the fuse block and the motors. I solved most of that by manufacturing a new harness to feed the switches, then a new harness to feed the motors. Once done I had 11.5 volts at the motors, and a very small voltage drop under load.

    My 308 motors run at a good speed up and down, however down is faster. My 400i has all original wiring and they are a bit slower. I need to do the same make over to them but just have not taken the time.

    Bundas,

    Since I purchased the 400i from you, once is arrived in Seattle, the top has never been up, nor have the windows. It rests in a heated climate controlled building alongside our 308gtsi, Candy's Lotus Turbo, way to many brass era cars, and a few recently added 1920's-30's Indy cars. We love the 400i and thank you for the opportunity to purchase it from you.

    Howard Musolf
    1981308gtsi
    1982 400i Cabriolet
    1988 Lotus Esprit Turbo
    1920's-30's Indy cars
    2 many brass era cars
     
  4. bundas

    bundas F1 Veteran
    Rossa Subscribed Owner

    Dec 31, 2005
    6,887
    lexington ky usa
    Full Name:
    mitchell barnes
    be careful there may be critters living in all that folded material. I got a Black Widow out of my shoe about a month ago. It liked my controlled climate garage. Thanks for posting your satisfaction as i was concerned that some portion was wrong
     
  5. tr0768

    tr0768 Formula Junior

    Oct 28, 2008
    635
    maltby wa
    Full Name:
    Howard Musolf
    Bundas,

    The good news is that our climate is not a warm and fuzzy place for them there critters to hang out. We do howerver spray all cars for those damn leather bugs. These little bastards attack the back of the leather and turn it to powder. Don't remember their given name but they do a job on real leather.

    That 400 I purchased from you is a delight to own and drive. I do have one issue that being I can't seem to pry Candies fingers away from the steering wheel, therefore I'm relegated to the other side of the car.

    It is an incredible road car especially at higher speeds. We have exceeded 125 mph over several long runs and it just sounds sooo good. The over all roadability and response is still quite good for a car that is 30 years old. To date no issues or major concerns, just turn the key and drive.

    Howard & Candy
     
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  7. rustytractor

    rustytractor Formula 3

    Mar 25, 2012
    1,078
    London
    Full Name:
    Russell Schacter
    Hi Howard

    I had a look at the passenger window on my 400 today as it either won't go up without assisting it by hand or it goes up sooooo slowly it's painful to watch. I've read the earlier posts in this thread so already understand how you overcame your problem but because mine's fine going down I wondered if anyone had any thoughts.

    Oh, and I still haven't fitted the new ball bearings to the seat runners yet cos I've been too busy using the car every chance I get now the weather's improving. I haven't had the 400 long but I absolutely love it despite the crippling fuel consumption!
     
  8. tr0768

    tr0768 Formula Junior

    Oct 28, 2008
    635
    maltby wa
    Full Name:
    Howard Musolf
    The windows seem to be able to go down faster than up. I'm guessing the reason is the geometry and physics of the cable design, and the weight of the window.

    Before I decided to tear into my system, I sprayed spray lube into the idlers and could see an improvement. I then used an Amprobe tester on the legs of the input leads to the motor. With this tester you can actually read the current draw of the window motor when running. Of course the higher reading the more current draw of the motor. As I lubricated the idlers the current draw was reduced and the spped increased. I also metered the voltage and it was well below 12 volts at the motor. I thought I had written down these readings but can't find them now. As I remember the open circut voltage was 10.3 at the motor. Once the switch was engaged the voltage dropped down to 7+.

    Now again as I remember I have battery voltage at the open circut at the motor and now when the switch is engaged I have 11+ volts at the motor, sorry can't remember the current draw.

    As a net result my windows go up and down at a good rate and with out help.

    Howard.
     
  9. rustytractor

    rustytractor Formula 3

    Mar 25, 2012
    1,078
    London
    Full Name:
    Russell Schacter
    Thanks Howard, when I get a spare day I'll lock myself into the garage with my meter and some spray grease and run some tests.

    One question - is the window lift cable dislodged if the motor is removed ? It's difficult to see how the motor attaches to the cable and I want to make sure when I start this job I know how to finish it without wanting to shoot myself.
     
  10. theobordeaux

    theobordeaux Formula Junior

    Jan 13, 2011
    482
    Bordeaux (France)
    Full Name:
    Theodore
  11. theobordeaux

    theobordeaux Formula Junior

    Jan 13, 2011
    482
    Bordeaux (France)
    Full Name:
    Theodore
    I had the same problem on my 400. I put the link where it explains how to do well. I used cable fittings for ultra flexible 3mm. With the normal cable it is very difficult to position without twisting.

    http://www.birdmanferrari.com/service/windowservice/index.html

    Theodore
     
  12. rustytractor

    rustytractor Formula 3

    Mar 25, 2012
    1,078
    London
    Full Name:
    Russell Schacter
    Now that's what I call detailed information!

    Thanks for this Theodore, I'll try the basic "clean and regrease" everything route first and see where I end up. If all else fails I'll get the accelerators at some point as they seem like a really simple solution.
     
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  14. simon klein

    simon klein F1 World Champ
    Silver Subscribed Owner

    Feb 25, 2009
    10,418
    North Qld
    Full Name:
    simon klein
    You could also try squirting some silicon spray on the door felts/runners.
    They can tend to grab and slow the elevation,I've not had this experience with my F cars though,just some of my work vehicles.Works a treat.
     
  15. rustytractor

    rustytractor Formula 3

    Mar 25, 2012
    1,078
    London
    Full Name:
    Russell Schacter
    Already tried that on Saturday. Made a difference to the window going down but not going up. I'll try cleaning all the old grease out and regreasing everything plus will check the electrical connections this coming weekend and see if it helps. Also those window accelerators @£60 each seem like a good idea so will probably order a pair as well.
     
  16. theobordeaux

    theobordeaux Formula Junior

    Jan 13, 2011
    482
    Bordeaux (France)
    Full Name:
    Theodore
    #15 theobordeaux, Apr 17, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
  17. rustytractor

    rustytractor Formula 3

    Mar 25, 2012
    1,078
    London
    Full Name:
    Russell Schacter
    Thanks Theodore, all of this information is really very helpful. Can you tell me if the motor is simple to detach from the cable and if the cable stays in place without the motor in place or whether the cable wraps around the motor drive gear/wheel meaning that the cable will go very slack if the motor is removed ? If this is the case, does the cable then start to come away from the pulley wheels ? I'm trying to get a clear picture of this mechanism so I understand exactly what to expect and don't end up wanting to shoot myself !
     
  18. bundas

    bundas F1 Veteran
    Rossa Subscribed Owner

    Dec 31, 2005
    6,887
    lexington ky usa
    Full Name:
    mitchell barnes
    are there two positive wires . one each for up and down. need to order accelerators
     
  19. theobordeaux

    theobordeaux Formula Junior

    Jan 13, 2011
    482
    Bordeaux (France)
    Full Name:
    Theodore
    Yes rustytractor, when removing the engine, the cable comes off the pulleys, so I showed the path of the cable if it shoots itself as you say! If you can, block the cable out of the pulley in order to count the number of turns around he does, then you measure the total length of cable. By winding the same number of laps you will recover the length needed to do to go through all the pulleys.
    For my part, the cable is being broken, I proceeded the same way and once repaired I had just the length we needed.
     

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