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Windscreen Washer Pump Circuit Query

Discussion in '360/430' started by Qavion, Dec 26, 2019.

  1. Qavion

    Qavion F1 Rookie

    Feb 20, 2015
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    Ian Riddell
    A gentleman on another forum is having problems with his 360 windscreen washer pump. He can't hear the pump motor running. I was trying to trace the circuit using the pinouts in the WSM. I found a relay behind the passenger seat which provides power to the pull-to-wash switch on the steering column. The solenoid of this relay is controlled by something in the instrument binnacle. However, the diagrams stop at a binnacle wiring connector labelled "9E". I earlier thought that engine start might inhibit the wiper and pump operation, but this plug doesn't seem to be near the ignition switch. Would low washer fluid levels inhibit the pump electrical operation? By design or coincidence, the low washer fluid indication wiring also goes to plug "9E".

    I know the forward luggage compartment latch inhibits the wiper function, but so far I haven't been able to tie that to the washer system.

    Anyway, I guess if the washer bottle warning symbol isn't showing, he has a pump motor failure or a pump motor power failure, rather than the pump motor being inhibited. I was just hoping to save him from having to remove his front bumper/fender.

    Thanks.
    Cheers.
     
  2. Qavion

    Qavion F1 Rookie

    Feb 20, 2015
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    After further reading in the WSM, the "output" contacts on plug 9E have these cryptic labels:

    "wiper reset" (going to what I believe is the washer power relay)
    "wiper timer" (going to what I believe is wiper ECU power pin).

    Seems strange to assign such functions to the instrument binnacle rather than the wiper ECU.

    Anyway, back to the basic question, does the washer motor run with an empty washer bottle?
     
  3. RedNeck

    RedNeck F1 Rookie
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    Jul 8, 2016
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    I would assume that it would not, as it is outfitted with a "liquid sensor", which seems to be directly connected to the pump itself, so I assume it would be more than just the light. Without breaking out the wiring diagram, I would assume that it would need to see liquid to complete the circuit to run the pump to keep it from burning out, much like the wipers and the hood, as they can't be run when the hood is open.
     
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  4. RedNeck

    RedNeck F1 Rookie
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    So I just broke out the wiring diagram...if you look up "S11A", which is pretty early in the document, that connection routes through 20A (headlight washer assy), 22A (windshield washer pump), and 23A (liquid level sensor), so I would think that since it's not a separate circuit from the pumps themselves that it would act as a safety sensor...does his car have the headlight washer? Might try seeing if you get the same result as they are 2 separate pumps.

    Might be chasing something more heinous when the only real problem is a burnt out light in the cluster.
     
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  5. Qavion

    Qavion F1 Rookie

    Feb 20, 2015
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    I was thinking that S11A was attached to a common fixed earth. I wasn't able to find that earth, because of an error in the manual. According to the pinout of S11A, it is attached to "S6A" (what you would expect to be another spice because of its "S" prefix). If you go to "S6A" in the WSM, it is a 3 pin plug and none of the numbers on that show that it is linked to S11A. The images of 6A and S6A are identical (both are connectors). Definitely an error.

    Yes and it works, so perhaps it is simply a windscreen washer motor problem. Do they use the same reservoir? The wipers also move on his dry windscreen.

    I'm currently constructing a diagram for the system (I only have the WSM connector pinouts). Because the inner workings of the modules and instrument panels are not shown, the logic may never be clear. Anyway, control seems to be done inside the instrument panel. These control relays behind the driver's and passenger's seats.

    Thanks for your feedback. I'll try to post a diagram constructed from the pinouts showing the system in more decipherable form (later this week).
     
  6. RedNeck

    RedNeck F1 Rookie
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    That makes sense, any time I’ve had to do anything electrical that wiring diagram has been a loose guide at best...
     
  7. Qavion

    Qavion F1 Rookie

    Feb 20, 2015
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    Here's my first attempt at a proper wiring diagram, but there are a few loose ends (some because of WSM errors).

    Ferrari 360 Windscreen Wiper/Washer System Wiring Diagram v 1

    I'll update the diagram when inspiration comes to me :D

    I see now that power for the washer/wiper switch comes from the ignition key via relay 57 (with no fuses!) Any washer inhibit would have to be on the solenoid of relay 57. However, this would affect the wiper, too. If washer fluid level was in the logic, it would stop everything working.
     

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