Not sure if there is another post on this interesting comment. I cannot see how this would help prevent brake fade. Brake fluid does not flow from the reservoir but expands and contracts in and out of the reservoir with heat and pad wear. So the fluid doing the work in the caliper is absorbing contaminents and is not replaced by the new material except to the extent that there is minor capiliary circulation which takes years.
EBC has a pretty good listing of brake pad applications. D45 and D31 pads are common to many 60's and 70's euro cars, MB, Porsche etc. Just tell the helpful counter person that they are for your 1961 Mercedes Benz 190D and you will be home free! http://www.ebcbrakes.com/Assets/2004_5USAautocat.pdf Ferrari 308 is on page 42.
You might consider Valvoline Syntec Brake Fluid, also available at Autozone or Advance Auto... it is just as inexpensive as Castrol LMA and has better specs: Castrol LMA: dry boiling point of 446F and wet bp of 311F Valvoline Syn: dry boiling point of 513F and wet bp of 333F For those of us who keep our brake fluid fresh, especially before a track event, the dry boiling point figure is the true reference. The wet figure is really based on your granny who may not change the brake fluid in her boatmobile for 3 to 5 years, so it has a lot of time to absorb moisture. Image Unavailable, Please Login
my bad luck. NAPA, Autozone and Advance cannot make any of the part numbers work . i got a set of front pads for a 1972 MB 280se and the damn pads are an inch wider than the 308's. it seems that some of the MB'S cars has 4 wheel disc brakes and those wont work as they are the big pads. the helpful guy found the "D100" pads for a 1972 benz without 4 wheel disc, and that seems to be the right size by the pics on the computer. of course, the pads did not come in today as they were supposed to, so i have to wait. again. i have my old pads with me in a box to compare them with what they have. i am working overtime, so i have to time to call around during the day and we are not allowed internet access in the security hangar i work in. will post the outcome when possible.
Man, that power bleeder is sumpin' I've been lookin' for for a lonnngg time(at least, at an affordable price). Bought the 'good' version of the it-sucks bleeder, always had the feeling it wasn't quite gettin' it all... thx
update, Advance Auto parts did not get the pads in today , either. i went to NAPA with all the part numbers in this thread. they cannot cross them, but they did cross the D100 pads that Advance said will work, but still dont have. the Napa pads are part number TS7021 and are too thick to go in the calipers, even with the pistons all the way seated. i am guessing the D100 1972 MB 280se pads wont fit either. i am going to try them anyway, if and when they get here. Charles, i got your message, i have been out of phone contact at work. i would rather not put used pads on the car, but if this nonsense continues i will buy yours. i may call Trutlands or FOCFLA and see what oem pads run.
Why not "move up" to Porterfield R4-S pads? Virtually dustless, and no squeal, even after a hard day at the track. I love 'em with stock calipers, and I now use them on my Brembo big front brakes. You can get them from www.************ or direct from www.porterfield-brakes.com. Not as cheap as over-the-counter pads, but worth it. $79 for front set, $69 for rear set.
Just trying to make it even clearer for everyone ... and I agree 100%. The fluid you WANT to replace is the fluid in the calipers ... no where else really (assuming you do this often enough). Hence you bleed your brakes! If you do not have to bleed your brakes often and track your car (often) ... then you do not drive hard enough . So get back out there and stop being a nancy pancy Pete
Real life experience would say you are mistaken. Start with fresh fluid in your system, and your reservoir fluid will be nice and clear. Look at it 3 or 4 months later -- not years -- and it will be discolored. That's not happening from that reservoir fluid sitting static in there... the movement from brake pressure as well as capilary action under heat is moving molecules around faster than you think. That being said, of course bleeding your brake system at the calipers is the best maintenance plan, but changing out your reserviour fluid isn't just cosmetics... it improves the total system.
ok i had the used set of Porterfield R4-S pads that Mike P gave me with the marrone 308gts. i put them on and the brakes were great. i went to Advance today, and the D100 pads would not work, however, the manager noticed i had been in there with the same ( Porterfield) box of old pads and he asked if he could help. we looked up pads for a benz, and then a early 70's Porsche 911s. the pads are "WEAREVER" sku 5750962 "D45" and they were $11.88 . they also have a warranty. i told him i gave the kid at the counter the D45, D145 ect but he could not get it to work. the new pads seem like they are a perfect match. now i have to return the other pads i got from NAPA monday, that dont fit.
Sorry simply do not believe this. Now your suggestion may solve the moisture in the brake fluid issue ... but when brakes get used real hard on a race track the fluid (in the calipers) boils. This boiling process does not help the fluid and thus you have to bleed this not so good fluid out and replace with new ... in the calipers. This is the reason why you can purchase tricky race calipers that actually move fluid through the caliper. Yep a new idea that everytime you brake a little bit of fluid is squeased out of the caliper and sent back to the reservoir (I assume). This means that after X brake applications completely new fluid is in the caliper. Now they would not have invested millions in R&D if they could just have changed the fluid in the reservoir now would they ... thus I prefer to believe people that actually design things for Le Mans, etc. where the drivers actually STAND on the brake pedal and get the brakes nice and hot. Anyway whatever makes you happy ... but I would not like to have your car racing behind me lap after lap wondering when your brake fade is going to happen. Pete
OF COURSE you would bleed if you were racing. In fact, you'd not just bleed, but flush the system with all new fluid just before a race. Chances are, you'd also be putting on new pads before a race at the same time. The turkey baster method is for a street car that occasionally plays on the track.
To me, just changing the fluid in the reservoir is like changing the engine oil but not the filter. The water in the fluid gets all through the system over time and will rust any steel or iron parts. All it takes is a bit of corrosion on a caliper piston bore to start a leak. I use a baster to empty the reservoir then put a small amount of fresh fluid in. I bleed a caliper just enough to run the reservoir down again then fill with fresh fluid. This way I don't have to empty the entire reservoir of old fluid through the caliper bleeder and I minimize the amount of fresh fluid diluted with old fluid. I flush the brake system on all of my cars every 2 - 3 years and have confirmed that the system componets last much longer. Taking the wheels off and bleeding (flushing) the system also forces you to examine the caliper/pads and suspension pieces which goes a long way toward catching problems while they are still small. For example: my daughter complained to me that her brakes were making noise, I found the brakes on ALL FOUR corners were metal to metal. Now I routinely check her car, change oil etc. because 1) her husband shouldn't be allowed near anything mechanical 2) she "borrows" money from me to fix the car. The more I catch problems when they are small, the more money "I" save.
My apologies, I guess for street use this would suffice . Pete ps: Most racers just bleed the brake enough to put new fluid in the calipers ... remember the rest doesn't even get that hot, but the poor fluid in the calipers does and does not get replaced unless you bleed (or have those fancy new calipers). Thus after about 5 bleeds you probably have replaced the whole fluid anyway ... ps2: I guess we are all saying the same thing ... I just replace my fluid via bleeding, and as I am MORE concerned about the stuffed fluid in the calipers than general corrosion caused by moisture. And I know via bleeding that the fluid that has had the hardest work and possibly boiled than thus taken on moisture has been removed. The other really good thing that manual bleeding does is that it moves the master cylinder pistons through their full stroke ... thus freeing it up, which helps with de-siezing it, etc. Thus as you all are saying, brake fluid is a maintenance item
I've read this whole debate on just replacing the fluid in the reservior rather than actually bleeding the brakes, and I'm left with one question, "Is it so hard to bleed brakes?" For Pete's sake, people, you can bleed your brakes in less than an hour on a sunny afternoon, why not do it right rather than spending the same amount of time and effort trying to justify a hack-ass method?
Some folks do very little of their own maintenance. Sure that's fine if you do it yourself... but if you've got to make an appointment to get the car down to the mechanic, arrange alternate transportation, etc, you're less likely to do it as a routine item but have to remember to ask to have it done when you take it to have other things done. If you're taking a street car to a track event and have to have a pre-track Tech Inspection done, it's probably the ideal time for the fluid bleed and/or change.
