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yoko A032R??

Discussion in 'Other Racing' started by Hubert, Nov 5, 2003.

  1. Hubert

    Hubert F1 Rookie

    Jan 3, 2002
    2,642
    The Left Coast
    I have an event this friday, and was hoping to step up to R cmopounds, but it's going to be wet, and hoosiers aren't exactly wet tires. So, I've got a set of yoko A032R's available; anyone have any feedback? I hear they're good in the wet, but give up some dry traction, any idea how much per lap they give up to say ecsta v700's; victoracers; pilot sport cups; or , hoosiers? I don't wanna blow money on a set of sub par dry tires just to get a good , one day, wet tire.
    thanks,
    hubert
     
  2. Brian C. Stradale

    Brian C. Stradale F1 Rookie
    Lifetime Rossa

    Mar 17, 2002
    3,603
    Dallas, TX, USA
    If you put good street tires at one end of a spectrum and Hoosier DOT tires at the other end, then V700's will be 2/3 of the way to the Hoosiers and A032R's would be 1/3. Or, said another way, if on your course you give up 3 secs between Hoosiers and good street tires, then you'll give up 1 to the Hoosiers with V700s and you'll give up 2sec to the Hoosiers with the A032Rs. In the dry.

    Those are far from scientific estimates... but reasonable rule of thumb for the dry.

    In the damp, the V700s will still be faster than the A032Rs; but the Hoosiers will be slower than both (as they need a bit of warmth and have almost no tread).

    In standing water, the A032R's will be fastest.


    HTH.
     
  3. rexrcr

    rexrcr Formula 3

    Nov 27, 2002
    1,572
    Kalamazoo, MI
    Full Name:
    Rob Schermerhorn
    For track days in the rain, I've always run a full tread depth high performance road tire (my old favorite was the Bridgstone RE71, now evolved into even better designs).

    I would not buy the A032. Too much of a compromise for someone willing to haul a second or third set of tires for track days. Not as much grip as a Hoosier or V700, etc. and too noisy on the street to just leave them on all the time.

    I gues it's okay as a dedicated rain tire, but if you want a great full-blown racing rain and have the budget, Pirelli already builds them. Call Bob Woodman tire for more infomation.

    Best regards,

    Rob Schermerhorn
     
  4. FLATOUTRACING

    FLATOUTRACING F1 Rookie

    Aug 20, 2001
    2,684
    East Coast
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    Jon K.
    Hubert,

    Busy day here at work so I need to keep it short.

    Here are lap times with the M5 (Summit Point's 2.4 mile main course)

    Hoosiers 1.28
    Kuhmo's 1.30-1.31
    Yokos 1.32-1.33

    The Yoko is a good rain tire but as a dry compound R tire it's at the bottom of the list.

    Maybe a Hoosier isn't a good comparison, eventhough it's a R compound tire it blows the kuhmo into the weeds.

    Hope this helps!

    Regards,

    Jon P. Kofod
    1995 F355 Challenge #23
    www.faltoutracing.net
     
  5. Hubert

    Hubert F1 Rookie

    Jan 3, 2002
    2,642
    The Left Coast
    #5 Hubert, Nov 5, 2003
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Thanks all. John, the time were helpful, but don't know which kumho you're comparing with the yoko; the victoracer, or the ecsta v700? At any rate, I hear the A032R's are better to "learn" on when moving up to R's, so I'll take the ego less travelled and see how I do, slowly.
    Speaking of hoosiers... the S04 is out, and kumho has just released this bad boy: The v710... kumho price, hoosier grip... hmm...
    Thanks again for the info, hubert
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  6. Schatten

    Schatten F1 World Champ
    Rossa Subscribed Owner

    Apr 3, 2001
    11,234
    Austin, TX
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    Randy
    this looks about right.

    if the Toyo RA1's are available in your size, you might want to try them out as well. I would estimate them *almost* as fast as the victoracers, but faster than the yoko's. One plus on the RA1's is the amount of heat cycles you can go through before they are trashed. The Kuhmo's don't last for that many heat cycles. In other words, if you need to, you can drive the RA1's to the track and not have any issues at all.
     
  7. Hubert

    Hubert F1 Rookie

    Jan 3, 2002
    2,642
    The Left Coast
    Only problem is... the toyos are on backorder, and otherwise a PITA to find. I'm already going to have to run 225/50's instead of 215/45's b/c no one other than hooiser makes a tire close to my size. I'm planning on the A032r's to and from the track, but otherwise they'll be stored b/w track days; lastly, the A032R's and they were ~ $35 less/tire than the RA1's. I just want to get a baseline feel for what my car will do with R's under it... at this point I'm most concerned with making a smooth transition off street ruber, to R compounds... man, this is going to get expensive.
     
  8. FLATOUTRACING

    FLATOUTRACING F1 Rookie

    Aug 20, 2001
    2,684
    East Coast
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    Jon K.
    Hubert,

    If you are going form a street tire the Yoko will do fine. Didn't know what other R tires you had run on and didn't want you disappointed with the Yokos.

    The Yoko is last on most peoples lists because it's got less grip. However, they last forever similar to a street tire. I have seen people get 2 years out of them (10-15 events). Only problem is that they get very hard and lose a bit more grip but they are great to learn car control on because they have a progressive breakaway.

    As you noted they are great in the rain becasue of their big tread blocks.

    In referrrence to the Kumhos I have run both and unlike most people don't think their is a great difference between the two. Compared to a Hoosier they both suck in my opinion but I run them on the M5 anyway when I can't get a hold of used Hoosiers from my supplier (won't buy them new for $200+ and only two to three days of use).

    A really good tire you might want to consider when you step up from the Yokos is the new Hankook Ventus Z211 R compound. I just picked up a couple of sets and they are much better than the Kumhos and not far off from the Hoosiers (maybe a second or so).

    Lastly, Randy is right the Toyo is also a good tire that will last longer than all the tires except the Yoko. Toyo's offer about the same performance as the Kumhos but last longer.

    I have been waiting for the Kumho slick but initially they aren't going to make any sizes I can fit on my cars so I'll have to wait until the new sizes are developed.

    Here is my tire ranking which is not scientific but just based on popular opinion and some lap times (haven't tried the all).

    Hoosier
    Hankook
    Michelin Pilot Cup
    Kumhos (ECSTA and V700)
    Toyo (tied with Kumho)
    Yoko

    Have fun at the track.

    Regards,

    Jon
     
  9. Brian C. Stradale

    Brian C. Stradale F1 Rookie
    Lifetime Rossa

    Mar 17, 2002
    3,603
    Dallas, TX, USA
    I would NOT recommend using the Yoko as a street tire... the tread block is incredibly loud. It'll drown out any exhaust quieter than a Stradale! Go for Toyo or Kumho if you want to double as street tire.

    I do NOT agree that the Toyo is as high grip as the Kumho. The Toyo is halfway between Yoko and Kumho. However, the Toyo WILL last a lot longer than the Kumho... 2-3x longer.


    Interesting that Jon ranks the Hankook above PSCup and Kumho... the top autocrossers in the country don't seem to have found the Hankook yet. I haven't even considered trying it. I'll have to look into it.
     
  10. FLATOUTRACING

    FLATOUTRACING F1 Rookie

    Aug 20, 2001
    2,684
    East Coast
    Full Name:
    Jon K.
    Brian,


    The Hankook tire is relatively new and comes only in one size only at the present (205/50 15's). It was used this year as the spec tire in the Regional, National, and Pro Spec Miata series. All the lap records were broken in Spec Miata with this tire vs. last years Toyo.

    Also broke lap records in ITS and SSB class where Toyos and Kumhos were the tires used in past seasons.

    The Michelins are good tires and on my M5 they were quicker than the Kumhos ECSTAS by a full second and a half. Problem with the Michelins is that they don't like to be shaved. Shaving them cuts their life by more than half. If you use that tire don't have it shaved.

    Yeah most people think the Kuhmo (either one) is faster and has more grip than the Toyo but it all depends what you are racing. On rear wheel drive cars the Kumhos are faster (again either one) but on front wheel drive cars the Toyo seems to have a stiffer tirewall and holds up better under cornering, which on a front wheel driver puts tremendous pressure on the front tires (they are braking, steering and accelerating the same tire).

    As far as Autocross, I can't comment here since I know absolutely zilch on the sport or which tires perform best. I do know that fast lap times in Autocross on a specific tire doesn't translate into fast lap times on the track frequently. At an autocross you do one or two laps then park the car as opposed to a track day or race where the tires are being heated for 20-30 minutes.

    It seems that the fastest cars in either track days or autocorss are Hoosiers from what I understand.

    To be honest, unless you are doing a lot of major setup work and driving at close to 9-10/10's you may not notice that big a difference.

    Most people at track days are running 6-7/10's.

    Find the tire that you are comfortable with and that fits your budget.

    Regards,

    Jon
     
  11. Hubert

    Hubert F1 Rookie

    Jan 3, 2002
    2,642
    The Left Coast
    #11 Hubert, Nov 6, 2003
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Thanks again everyone for your input.

    As of now, I've only been using street tires, so I think anything will be a step up (with regard to the move from street --> R compound), but I knew that hoosiers weren't what I should learn on; didn't want to be that "cool guy" on hoosiers that spent every session mowing the lawn.
    At what point do the A032Rs become too hard? I usually get about 4-5 25min session/track days (about 5 heatcycles), at which point do they fall off?

    Jon,
    I tried to find the hankook tire, but they seem to have a clandestine dist. base as of now, and aren't readily available, but the spec miata guys are raving about them (as you noted). If these yoko's last me 10 events, I'll be very happy as I usually get about 3 -4 events out of my street tires before they're at the wear bars.

    Brian,
    I don't intend on using the A032R on the street; just to and from the track. Afterwhich they'll be stored off the car.

    Lastly, guys, here's the sizes in development from hankook for the ventus R compound tire.

    Best Regards,
    Hubert
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  12. Brian C. Stradale

    Brian C. Stradale F1 Rookie
    Lifetime Rossa

    Mar 17, 2002
    3,603
    Dallas, TX, USA
    Jon, that explains everything.

    On autocross vs track, the biggest difference is that autocross needs a tire that doesn't require much heat to be sticky... whereas track needs a tire that holds up well to a lot of heat for a while. Thus, the Hoosier is even a bigger winner in autocross than it is on the track.

    However, the Hoosier is not suitable for the street at all.
    Not even to and from the event unless you live real close.

    Don't worry about it. Even "hardened", they'll still beat street tires. So, until you get to the point where you wouldn't want the Yoko's anyway, don't worry about heat cycles on them.

    HOWEVER, if I were you, I'd seriously consider the Toyo alternative to the Yoko. I can't think of a good reason to choose the Yoko unless you are planning to be running in standing water or heavy rain.

    HTH,
    Brian
     
  13. maranelloman

    maranelloman Guest

    Here's my $0.02.

    As much as I hate to buy French stuff, I have absolutely LOVED the Michelin Pilot Sport Cups on my M3. They are ==VERY==set up & camber dependent. My set up is perfect for them, and I am getting superb, even wear. I currently have 13 track days on them (no B.S.) and probably have enough tread left for 4-6 more. As anyone who has ridden with me in the M3 knows, I drive 9/10ths or above pretty much all the time on track, and don't put a wheel wrong. Once warmed up, these tires are THE_****, period.

    Oh, and by the way: I also drive to & from the tracks I go to with them (110-210 miles each way) since I am too damned lazy to do actual work at the track. They take approx. 2 laps to properly warm up, even in summer, but they are THE_****.

    Previously, I had used V700's, which were very nice, but required shaving...which cut their usable life. I also used Yoko AVS Intermediate street tires at track tires. Better than I ever expected, and they lasted forever. Brian, this is what I had on the car when we were at MSR together in March.

    For rain? Forget the Michelins, especially if there is standing water. TRUST ME ON THIS--they are scary hydroplaners above 40 MPH. The V700's are marginally better.
     
  14. Gary(SF)

    Gary(SF) F1 Rookie

    Oct 13, 2003
    3,637
    Los Altos Hills, CA
    Full Name:
    Gary B.
    Has anyone run the PSC's on a 360? I'd be interested to hear feedback. How do they compare to the Pirelli Corsa? What kind of camber changes would have to be made to a 360 to fully utilize the PSC?
    How easy is it to make these changes??
     
  15. Ira Schwartz

    Ira Schwartz Formula 3
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    May 20, 2003
    1,775
    Brooklandville, MD
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    Ira Schwartz
    Jon and Maranelloman: I was interested to see your comments on the Michelin PSCups, as I just put a set on my 348 Challenge car (225/40x18 front, 295/30x18 rear), and opted for heat-cycling but not shaving. Haven't had much chance to use them yet- drove them only moderately quickly for one day at Moroso last weekend before the car developed a fuel delivery problem, so it's a little early to tell. They needed at least a couple of laps to get any heat in them, after which they felt good. We shall see . . .
    Ira
     

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