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Zandvoort corner banking to be twice as steep as Indianapolis

Discussion in 'F1' started by mcimino, Nov 24, 2019.

  1. mcimino

    mcimino Formula 3
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  2. GrigioGuy

    GrigioGuy Splenda Daddy
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    Steep? Indy is practically flat
     
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  3. mcimino

    mcimino Formula 3
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    Yeah, but in 2005, out of the 20 cars that entered the race, only six cars from the teams using Bridgestone tires competed. The remaining fourteen cars, all using Michelin tires, completed the parade lap, then retired to the pits before the race started because Michelin told them without a reduction in speed in Turn 13, the tires would only be safe for 10 laps.
     
  4. william

    william F1 World Champ

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    The 4 corners are at 9° angle.
     
  5. GrigioGuy

    GrigioGuy Splenda Daddy
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    I know. I was there. But 9 degrees isn't steep.
     
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  6. mcimino

    mcimino Formula 3
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    Me too :). It was steep enough to destroy the race though. I'm wondering whether Pirelli needs to make a Zandvoort spec tire now.
     
  7. lorenzobandini

    lorenzobandini F1 Rookie
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    Nonetheless, Zandvoort's will be twice as steep. ;)
    What degree of banking, to you, would begin "steep"?
    Zero degrees of banking is flat. Anything above 0 degrees, to me and others, determines steepness of an incline. :)
     
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  8. mcimino

    mcimino Formula 3
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    The old Monza banking is 38.69 degrees at its highest..approx. an 80% gradient - that's steep. (Daytona is 31 degrees.) Just the aero on modern F1 cars would push the cars flat into the pavement. If Zandvoort is just a bit under half that gradient (18 degrees), the cars will need major modifications I would think.

    Monza...
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  9. Kiwi Nick

    Kiwi Nick Formula 3

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    #9 Kiwi Nick, Nov 24, 2019
    Last edited: Nov 24, 2019
    That should give the teams quite a headache trying to figure out the right combination of aero downforce to handle the final turn without bottoming out, yet enough to handle the rest of the circuit.

    As for the debacle at Indy. Did the banking ruin the race or did Michelin ruin the race? Pirelli produced a tire that safely finished the race.

    Don't forget Avus, it was paved with bricks, and banked at 43 degrees.

    I think this is the 1959 German GP.

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  10. Gatorrari

    Gatorrari F1 World Champ
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    Bridgestone, not Pirelli.
     
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  11. william

    william F1 World Champ

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    Talking about bankings that were very much in favour in the pre-war, and not so much since

    Brooklands in England 30°
    Opel Rennbahn in Germany 32°
    Monza 38°
    AVUS in Germany 45°
    Monthlery in France 52°
    Sitges in Spain 66°

    So, at 18°, the Zandvoort banking will be far from extreme.

    Sitges, near Barcelona was abandonned after one race, as too dangerous.
     
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  12. kylec

    kylec F1 Rookie
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  13. lorenzobandini

    lorenzobandini F1 Rookie
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    Aero would have naught to do with the compression of the springs on the banking. It would be the same at 300kph whether on a flat surface or going around a 90 degree banking. A wing knows not what angle it is in in relation to the earth; nor does it care, nor the lift it is generating....
    Centrifugal force doesn't change the aero downforce.
    It is only the 702+ kg mass of the cars that is what's in the equation regarding the centrifugal compression. Image Unavailable, Please Login

    ;)
     
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  14. ago car nut

    ago car nut F1 Rookie
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    Easy fix! do away with all aero and problem solved. Maybe they could follow closer too!
     
  15. Nembo1777

    Nembo1777 F1 Veteran

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    I flew over Sitges on approach to BCN airport, we actually looped right over it I think pilots use it as a marker and even from that altitude it was impressive. I raced at Monthlery in 1988 in Formula Ford and another guy in front of me had double front suspension failure, he just slid on until he stopped with well worn floor. van Diemen gave me reinforced susp arms before that race. It was fun to pass someone on the banking because you could pull out of his draft for the pass very hard with so much more grip.
     
  16. WPOZZZ

    WPOZZZ F1 Rookie

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    It would be something else if they could rehab that circuit!

     
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  17. Daytonafan

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    The specific problem in 2005 was related to the Indy circuit being resurfaced and being especially abrasive. Bridgestone avoided the problems because they also supplied Indycar (through the Firestone brand) and had far more data on the surface. F1 ran for 8 years at Indy and only had issues that year.

    Also the current F1 wide slick tyres bear no relation to the narrow grooved tyres of 2005.
     
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  18. Kiwi Nick

    Kiwi Nick Formula 3

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    Oops!
     
  19. DeSoto

    DeSoto F1 Veteran

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    What speed are they going thru that corner? Steep or not, at Indy they go very fast but those guys who do tricks in a barrel with a scooter not too much.
     
  20. jcurry

    jcurry F1 World Champ
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    Everyone gets DRS on the bank. No problem.
     
  21. Nembo1777

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    Is construction actually going on at Zandwoort? Do we have photos?
     
  22. Jack-the-lad

    Jack-the-lad Three Time F1 World Champ
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    Is this at the site of one of the famous corners like Tarzan or Hugenholtz?
     
  23. lorenzobandini

    lorenzobandini F1 Rookie
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    Sacre bleu....!!!

    "Draft" over there ???!!!

    Je ne comprends pas....!

    I didna' know there was a NASCAR FF on that side of the pond. :confused:

    'Woulda' thunk it was "pull out of his slipstream".... :p

    :)
     
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  24. Nembo1777

    Nembo1777 F1 Veteran

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    Desole for my Murricanism:D perhaps caused by seeing the excellent Le Mans 66 movie this weekend.
     
  25. lorenzobandini

    lorenzobandini F1 Rookie
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