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ZR-1 versus ZR1 as sound investments...

Discussion in 'American Muscle' started by James_Woods, Apr 24, 2008.

  1. James_Woods

    James_Woods F1 World Champ

    May 17, 2006
    12,722
    Dallas, Tx.
    Full Name:
    James K. Woods
    Here is an interesting link on the value of the 90-95 ZR-1 with some thoughts on the future of the new ZR1...I think I may be the only old ZR-1 owner on here (or one of two or three), but you could very will make some comparisons to Ferraris of the same era like the Testarossa:

    http://www.autoweek.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080422/FREE/730351425/1528/newsletter01

    It came to me by way of an email services that is for current ZR-1 owners and interested parties. Poster was a 1990 ZR-1 owner I have known a long time - Kimberly. I replied this (with some Testarossa comparisons, which is why I wanted to put it up here...)

    _____

    Kimberly has a point. There may also be another issue - with the coming of the 505 hp Z06, and the new ZR1, many potential buyers may be more interested in getting the very latest thing, so there could be some backlash there. I tend to agree on the lack of technicians for the ZR-1 in the future; even the local (Dallas) Lingenfelter affiliate is a little reluctant to get into my 95 now - and you can pretty much forget about the dealers, IMHO.



    I have something of a parallel with my 1986 single mirror Ferrari Testarossa. These cars are wallowing around in the mid 50K to mid 60K dollar mark now. It may be years before they get the "12 cylinder Ferrari Appreciation". They sold, of course, for well over 140K 1986 dollars. By that standard, our ZR-1 cars have done pretty well - especially if we were the second or third owners and did not pay a dealer markup from new. And at least, we do not have to PULL THE ENGINE OUT every five to seven years (no matter the miles) to replace the timing belts. (8K to 10K dollars per service)



    I have no financial regrets on either the ZR-1 or the Ferrari. I had long wanted an example of each of these as they were the performance icons of their era. They are special interest cars for me - driving alternately on weekends, going to shows, etc. I bought them fairly economically, and I do not care much if they make big appreciation or not; I will probably keep both until I can no longer drive - and then we will see if somebody wants them - in or out of my family.



    BTW, the local agency that sold me the Testarossa has a white/tan early
    1995 ZR-1 with 1700 miles - asking 49.5K. I assume he will eventually let it go in the low 40s. That does not look at all bad to a knowledgeable enthusiast if you are comparing to a 1700 mile C6 Z06 - at least it is something relatively unique.



    James 1995 #401 Black/Black

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  3. Craigy

    Craigy Formula 3

    Mar 19, 2006
    1,655
    Louisiana
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    Craigy
    I don't really see the reason for the outrageous over-sticker prices of these new cars being that everyone is looking to "invest" their money in one, especially for the long term. Sure there are some folks who will pay a little over list to soon flip it for another markup, but that sort of thing happens very quickly after release while the market is still hot. I think it boils down to a "gotta have it" mentality or the need to be the first on the block with the latest and greatest, just like any popular consumer good.

    The fact that people are paying such a high price but then minimally driving the cars could easily be construed as evidence of the "investment" idea, but that is in my opinion a misconception. Many folks take pride in simply owning a classic car or a sportscar or a custom show car, whether or not they really drive it. There are people that would turn their '00 Chevy Camaro into a "garage queen." And really cars like this should be driven less, for the mere fact that they tend to be the owner's 2nd or 3rd vehicle. And the more vehicles one acquires the less each one will be driven. While there may be some folks who buy a ZR-1 as their only means of transportation, or as their second car which they take out frequently, I believe that the typical owner will already have a 2nd or 3rd vehicle, and the ZR-1 will be one of several.

    Of course there will be many people who do think that their low mile perfect car should be worth a whole lot more than any other, as evidenced by the classifieds section on places like "corvetteforum," but what these people fail to realize is that other owners of the same model vehicle are just as likely to keep their vehicles in as pristine condition as they do.

    The problem with treating cars like this as investments is the fact that there are too many of them. I think there were something like 5,000 Zr-1's manufactured, and most of them are probably surviving today in pretty good shape. GM will without a doubt produce as many ZR1's as they can expect to sell, and for that reason its value will only go down over time, barring some sort of political shift or other unexpected cut of production.

    If you were to pick one or the other to park your money into for investing purposes, then the old ZR-1 would be the best bet. But will the price of the car appreciate enough to even keep up with inflation? Perhaps so. If you can sell the car that you buy for $28,000 today for $100,000 25 years from now, would you think you did well?
     
  4. Craigy

    Craigy Formula 3

    Mar 19, 2006
    1,655
    Louisiana
    Full Name:
    Craigy
    What I originally meant to say is that articles like this look back on the initial buyers of these supercars of their time as those "investing" their money but coming up disappointed years later. While that may be the case for a limited number of people, I would say the vast majority of those initial buyers knew good and well that they were paying money for a depreciating asset, with the main intent of the purchase being their enjoyment of the car at that point in time, on or off the road.
     
  5. Kds

    Kds F1 World Champ

    Will you be around in 2030 when there are drunk idiots at BJ paying $500K for them ?

    That is the question to ask yourself when making this decision.
     
  6. Pantera

    Pantera F1 Rookie

    Nov 6, 2004
    4,423
    I really don't care if I buy a car its to enjoy and drive the hell out of it not to think of it as real estate.

    Enjoy them while were here and they are on the road and to hell with the whole value deal thing.
     
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  8. Shark01

    Shark01 F1 Rookie

    Jun 25, 2005
    3,917
    1994-95 Z (upgraded interior....low production numbers) will be the eventual winner over the new one. Just like with the "exclusive" C6 Z06 (limited production.....yeah right) they will make one more new Z than they think they can sell.
     
  9. jefffromcanada

    jefffromcanada Formula 3
    Silver Subscribed

    Nov 2, 2006
    1,015
    Alberta
    There are very few cars built in the last 20 years that are worth more now than then. Vipers, Prowlers, ZR1, Stealth RTs, NSX, Most Lambos & Fcars. There were tons of examples of people paying well over sticker when these cars came out. Even the last generation Camaros. Whats a ultra low mileage early Viper, ZR1 worth........not as much as a new one. Guys were paying over a 100 grand for Prowlers, you can buy them now in the 30's.......I even saw an early one at $29900.

    Only cars that come to mind that are worth more than when new built in the last 20 yrs (I don't know orig MSRPS) Jag XJ220, Porsche 959, Maclaren F1, Enzo, F40-50. I think thats it.
     
  10. REMIX

    REMIX Two Time F1 World Champ
    Silver Subscribed

    I think Buick Grand Nationals and GNXs are above original MSRP now. Definitely GNXs are.

    RMX
     
  11. jefffromcanada

    jefffromcanada Formula 3
    Silver Subscribed

    Nov 2, 2006
    1,015
    Alberta
    Nice GN's can be bought in the 20's. Wasn't a GNX in the mid 30's new maybe even 40K new. I think an owner of a real nice, top notch GNX, would be hard pressed to get 40K, don't you agree. I could be wrong though and a GNX is a very rare car.
     
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  13. Craigy

    Craigy Formula 3

    Mar 19, 2006
    1,655
    Louisiana
    Full Name:
    Craigy
    XJ220's are still below their MSRP, I think. . . the initial plans for the car were pretty big, and when the final design came out they had a lot of canceled orders. A lot of articles blame this on some sort of recession. . . but I think it was more due to the car being a disappointment.

    The F40 is worth more now, depending on exactly how much was paid for it when new. MSRP was about $400, and they didn't sell for that. If you were one of the folks who paid a million plus for one in the early 90's then you're still not doing so hot.

    And the Enzo is a little bit higher right now. . .but when they initially rolled off it again boils down to how much was paid for any particular car. MSRP has no relevance.
     

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