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Zymol wax for a Ferrari

Discussion in 'Ferrari Discussion (not model specific)' started by boraville, Mar 2, 2009.

  1. boraville

    boraville Formula Junior

    May 7, 2008
    322
    Livingston, NJ
    Full Name:
    Bora Sultan
    The current wax thread got me thinking. And I didnt want to thread jack so...

    After watching the You tube video posted on the other thread I contacted Zymol to find out that they do make a wax specifically for a Ferrari. they call it ITAL (link posted below)

    http://www.zymol.com/zymolitalglaze8oz.aspx

    ITAL is relatinely cheap as Zymol goes at about $100 a tub. However the zymol line goes up to $2200 for a single tub, with many price points in between.

    Question is does anyone have any experience with the $200, $300, $500 $2200 Zymol products? And would one notice a difference between a $500 wax and a $2200 wax.

    Incidentlly, I spoke to a Diane at Zymol who is willing to give 10% off to orders.

    B
     
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  3. AustinMartin

    AustinMartin F1 Veteran

    Mar 1, 2008
    5,094
    Los Angeles/Idaho
    The $2200 tub has unlimited refills, and is the finest wax in the world.
     
  4. andric

    andric Formula Junior

    Feb 26, 2008
    449
    interesting...
     
  5. boraville

    boraville Formula Junior

    May 7, 2008
    322
    Livingston, NJ
    Full Name:
    Bora Sultan
    Diane at Zymol (800-999-5563 in US) is offering a 10% discount on that as well. After complaining about paying up for an replacement exhaust I an literally on the verge of buying it. Just waiting for some feedack. But $2200 over a lifetime does not seem unreasonable. (I would not make that statement in the real word LOL!)

    B
     
  6. Swiss Frank

    Swiss Frank Karting

    May 6, 2008
    177
    Hong Kong
    I have a patch each of Meguiar's Deep Crystal and Tech Wax 2.0 sitting on my carbon Black M5's bootlid... I think I can see a difference (Texh may be darker/more mirrory??) but then again I'm not positive either really looks better than the non-waxed parts that have only been washed/clayed/paint-cleaned/hand-polished.

    And thats on a car that hasn't left the house. You drive it 10km and whatever wax you have will be dirty to an extent it overwhelms the difference between waxes I think.

    Once I get the 2001 BMW finished (at 2 hours/week it will take another month) I'll try waxing a bit on the Spider.



    I'm also regretting this: I should have done detailing in highschool or summer job in university. I was such a car nut then, I remember spending 6 hours on my folks' brown Olds!
     
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  8. of2worlds

    of2worlds F1 World Champ
    Silver Subscribed

    Apr 6, 2004
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    CH
    I think the talent and experience of the person working on the paint is more important than the product price.
    There was a red Boxer out in the northwest with tired paint. After it was worked over by a professional the paint was better than new.
    Ch
     
  9. Tonza

    Tonza Karting
    Rossa Subscribed

    May 31, 2006
    199
    Houston
    Full Name:
    Anthony

    I think Zymol Ital works great, and I just wanted to pass along the impact of the current environment on Zymol pricing. I paid $360 for the same 8 oz. container of "Ital" from Zymol on 4/15/2007. I don't think I would buy again at that price now, but I would definitely buy it at $100. Also they recommend applying the wax with your hands, which I find works very well.

    Long story short, this used to be a $400 wax, so I wouldn't feel you are getting less then the higher priced products.
     
  10. boraville

    boraville Formula Junior

    May 7, 2008
    322
    Livingston, NJ
    Full Name:
    Bora Sultan
    Wow. If ITAL was $400 thats a crazy drop. No joke, you can buy it off the Zymol website for $90. thank you for the feedback.
     
  11. enzo thecat

    enzo thecat F1 Rookie
    Rossa Subscribed Owner

    Jan 27, 2008
    3,577
    Midwest
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    Enzo Thecat
    It was only $400 for a matter of months. 2000-2005 it was $60. It then jumped up to $70/tub; then last year went to $400. A lot of people complained including myself... I believe the people at Zymol were not being honest with me when I called them to inquire about the dramatic price increase and I have a thread about the exchange here on FCHAT. I now use a different product adn have 3 brand new Zymol Ital tubs in a closet. Maybe I'll use those, maybe not.

    e
     
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  13. 360blue

    360blue Formula Junior

    Dec 27, 2007
    292
    Hancock Park
    Full Name:
    adil
    Swissvax's Scuderia wax , AutoGlym's newest High Defination Wax and Pinnacle are very good waxes that I have tried on my Ferrari. No matter what product you use, if the prep is good, your car will appear great. But 2 months and 3 - 4 washes later you have to prep and wax again. Swissvax has a wax cleaning oil that will help take off old wax depositis from the clear coat with much more ease than Zymol's HD Cleanser and you are ready to apply a fresh coat of wax again.
     
  14. tnferrariowner

    tnferrariowner Karting

    Jan 30, 2009
    201
    Savannah, GA
    Full Name:
    David
    I have always used Zymol for all the cars my father has acquired over the years in Australia - from old Fiats to Lancias, Lamborghinis and Ferraris. I believe in it and just purchased it again to use on my 360 after buying the car in the USA. It is great product!
     
  15. Tonza

    Tonza Karting
    Rossa Subscribed

    May 31, 2006
    199
    Houston
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    Anthony
    Sux that I happened to research and buy the product at the high never knowing it once sold for $60. In any event, I still recommend at $90 and will buy more at that price. It has lasted me almost 2 years, so I do think it is worth the price.
     
  16. Tifoso Ferrari

    Tifoso Ferrari Formula Junior

    Nov 7, 2005
    459
    Upper Volta
    Full Name:
    Gianni Cagate
    The FCA recently had a detailing session at California Detailing. One of the products highlighted was Tech Shine.

    http://www.tech-shine.com/

    It's simply AMAZING, and when uses properly, outshines everything, IMO!
     
  17. luv2detail

    luv2detail Formula 3

    Mar 30, 2006
    2,218
    Ventura County, CA
    Full Name:
    Jason
    Very true. 95% of the final result of a detail is the prep work. The wax is just the finishing touch.

    Bora, to answer your question, I highly doubt you or anyone else could notice a significant difference between Zymol Destiny (~$500) and Zymol Vintage (~$2200). Or for that matter, the difference between Zymol Vintage and a $15 bottle of Meguiars #26 Hi-Tech Carnauba Wax, which is a great one by the way. Personally, I prefer Pinnacle Souveran.

    By the way, if your interested, Zymol Royal can be had for a mere ~$8000.:D
     
  18. Fast_ian

    Fast_ian Two Time F1 World Champ

    Sep 25, 2006
    23,267
    Campbell, CA
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    Ian Anderson
    +1

    Speaking of which, Griots (and I'm sure others), have a "paint prep kit" that "dissolves away old wax or sealant". In the generally accepted "wash -> Polish -> wax workflow I'm surprised no one has mentioned this (good, bad or a waste of time?) - It makes sense to me, but am certainly open to comments from those with more experience.....

    You gotta be kiddin' :D

    Can you (or anyone, come to that) actually tell the difference between this and "your" recommended Meguiars #26?

    Cheers,
    Ian
     
  19. Futureman

    Futureman Formula 3

    May 16, 2007
    2,024
    Why bother when Dawn dish washing liquid does the same thing.
     
  20. Fast_ian

    Fast_ian Two Time F1 World Champ

    Sep 25, 2006
    23,267
    Campbell, CA
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    Ian Anderson
    Hmmmm - I *thought* (!) the big benefit of Dawn (or the like) was that's exactly what it doesn't do.... 3-6 washes with Dawn doesn't get rid of the polish/wax - That's why it's recommended for "between polishing" usage. [But, I'm open to be proven wrong here of course.....]

    If true, this suggests that every time I wash the car it needs fresh polish / wax - I do hope not! ;)

    Cheers,
    Ian
     
  21. TCM

    TCM Formula Junior

    Nov 10, 2003
    552
    Tyngsborough, MA
    As others have stated above. Most of the finish of a car's paint comes from the prep work before waxing. That all being said, Zymol makes great waxes. There are differences between them and you can tell the difference if you used them side by side. Remember most of their waxes are high on the white carnauba content, which provides great shine but little durability so you may want to think about using a sealant underneath the Ital or Concours, or Destiny for best results. Everyone has a particular brand or product they like, but the I think you cannot go wrong with Zymol, their products work.
     
  22. Todd Helme

    Todd Helme Formula Junior

    Apr 2, 2007
    924
    Oviedo Florida
    Full Name:
    Todd Helme
    Car waxes always make for interesting discussions. At the end of the day, if you are happy with the results you get from the wax (at any price point) and then that is ALL that matters. However my analytical brain (and drive to be the best I can be at my profession) has lead me to research this (and pretty much any topic of car care and detailing I can) to the nth degree. Here are some 'truths' and facts of my research. Again I'm not refuting anybodies product choices or looking to argue, these discussions are up my ally (I know its ridiculous!).

    By true volume the maximum amount of actual wax content in a jar of wax cannot exceed roughly 30%. Once that number is exceeded the carnauba becomes almost impossible to apply. If more then 50% the wax is carnauba the wax will have a hardness similar to concrete. Modern VOC regulations have limited the types and amounts of solvents that can be mixed to soften carnauba wax. So the begs a couple of questions, what is carnauba wax and what does it do for the finish of the paint?

    Carnauba wax is a natural occurring resin that is excreted by the carnauba palm, which is often found in North Easter Brazil. I believe upwards of 99% of all carnauba wax harvesting is done here. All carnauba wax is yellow (actually ranging in color from a opaque tan to a darker brown depending on age). There is no such thing as 'white' or ivory carnauba in nature but several techniques have been developed to make it appear white. One is an actual bleaching of the color from the resin, although studies have shown this has no effect on the final appearance of the wax or its over all protective qualities. The second method of forming white or ivory carnauba wax is a micro refining of the wax, or simply grinding it up extremely small. When wax it is harvested and sold it is generally very flaky as it is (for lack of better terms) 'chipped' from the fawns of the carnauba palm. Grinding it extremely small can have some slight performance benefits as it may mix more evenly when cut with solvents and infused with oils. Believe it or not this micro refining is a newer technique, most wax companies rely on bleaching the wax to create the white carnauba.

    When applied to the paint, carnauba wax provides protection against UV rays and environmental fall out, as well as acid rain, bug guts, bird bombs, rain, dirt, etc. When carnauba gets wet it actually swells which increases the surface tension and promotes water beading. It is a sacrificial barrier between the surface of the paint and the factors that attack it on a daily basis. Carnauba wax is not particularly shiny or glossy in it's natural state. All automotive carnauba wax is #1 grade yellow (it is all the same) and also used in medicine (pills capsules) and for candy (gummy bears). However the opaque nature of carnauba wax will provide an optical illusion sometimes referred to as jetting, which is an optical distortion which makes surfaces appear 3 dimension or further way. Particular oils and silicones are blended with the wax to provide richness, gloss, and the 'wet look'. When the oils and wax are applied to the paint you end up with that dark, deep, 3 dimension look that carnauba waxes are famous for.

    The interesting aspect is that that quality of the oils and solvents in combination with exacting blending techniques is far more important to the performance of the wax then the amount of carnauba actually in the product. #1 grade carnauba wax is actually pretty cheap (last time I check the highest grade wax was roughly $12.00 for a 5 pound block). Although very few companies will give out product cost for obvious reasons I have had conversations with several blenders (to my knowledge there are only 3 wax blenders in the US although I could mistaken on the exact amount. All US made wax is poured in these facilities regardless of the name on the label) and formulators and all are confident in saying that all car wax manufacturing cost of around $1.00 to $7.00 (extremely high end) dollars to pour and produce, and the cost is mostly dependent on the volume being poured of that blend.

    Given that the actual carnauba volume is one of the least important factors in a wax's performance, it is strange that some companies will market the amount of wax found in the product (given that these numbers are impossible to achieve). Like performance supplements, there exists not organization that has set standards for care car products to follow. This means that companies can measure the content using different methods that are likely not scientifically correct and do not hold weight between companies. It is similar to comparing rear wheel horsepower on different dynos.

    Here are a couple of different techniques used to 'amp' the carnauba content reported.

    If you take a 100 gallon drum and fill it with 80 gallons of feathers (which represent the flaky, airy nature of harvested carnauba resin) it will be mostly full. Now we decide to add water (which represents the solvents and oils blended in) we might be surprised to find that the 100 gallon drum of will hold 80 gallons of water bef0re spilling over. We have fit 160 gallon of product into a 100 gallon container because we have mixed wet and dry volumes. Now if we use some create marketing with out set standards of measuring we can come up with some pretty interesting ways or reporting our findings.

    1) We could say that the container holds 80 percent feathers by volume. This isn't scientifically correct but not necessary a lie.

    2) We could say that the container holds 50 percent feathers by volume, since we have 80 gallons of feathers and and 80 gallons of water. Although we have mixed wet and dry volume, this is at least slightly more accurate then the above reason.

    3) We could say that the product has 20 percent feathers by volume which measures the actual wet volume of the container. This is probably the most accurate assessment although the least appealing if big numbers sell.

    Another factor is that carnauba is often mixed with other waxes for performance reasons, mostly paraffin or beeswax. If we state that produce features 80% carnauba and do not state 80% of what, then we can simply refer to the amount of carnauba wax in relation to the other waxes in the product. Lastly we can always state by weight, although carnauba resin is often 2 to 4 times as dense and the liquids it is blended with, inflating numbers proportionately

    The last two things I will touch on are hand applied waxes and model specific waxes.

    Carnauba wax melts at 160 degrees F. If you have to apply the wax by hand you are not melting and spreading it on to the paint (imagine what would happen if the wax melted at 98.6 degrees F and you pulled your car out int the sun!). By using particular blending techniques you keep the wax and solvents in suspension. Some companies refer to blending and slow pouring and the resulting wax as 'soft'. You can usually feel the slightly grainy texture of the separated carnauba in the wax. By rubbing the wax together in your palms (warming it) you blend the grainy carnauba with the solvents, activating the wax if you will.

    Ferrari has used many different paint systems over the years and in 2005 switched to PPG's Cermaclear paint system, which was originally developed for use on Mercedes Benz and Maybach. Prior to 2005 Ferrari has used DuPont, DuPont Glasurit, and PPG paint systems (and probably a lot of other ones). There is no such thing as 'Italian Paint'. Since the new paint is developed for German cars, should you use a wax for German Paints instead of Italian? As you can probably guess, it really doesn't matter. Since 'Ferrari' paint doesn't exist, a wax for Ferrari paint cannot exist.

    Okay I have spent way too long typing this (but I do love these subjects). Let me reiterate that in the end it doesn't matter what you choose as long as you are happy with the results you get. Waxing your car should be enjoyable and fun. There are a thousands roads to Rome, as long as you enjoy the sites you see on the road you choose, there is no need to listen to some obsessed detailer preach about nothing!
     
  23. Todd Helme

    Todd Helme Formula Junior

    Apr 2, 2007
    924
    Oviedo Florida
    Full Name:
    Todd Helme
    Dawn is a high alkaline detergant that is 'tough on grease'. Anything tough on grease is going strip most waxes. Repeated use will dry out rubber seals, plastic trim, etc.
     
  24. venusone

    venusone F1 Rookie

    Mar 20, 2004
    2,809
    I use Zymol on the Miata. Hard core waxing don't get much better on my weather worn paint surface.
     
  25. saw1998

    saw1998 F1 Veteran

    Jun 8, 2008
    8,237
    San Antonio, Texas
    Full Name:
    Scott
    Thank you for taking the time to post this. It's greatly appreciated! Absolutely fascinating and educational.
     
  26. stuckinkuwait

    stuckinkuwait Formula Junior

    Jul 25, 2004
    630
    Northern New Jersey
    Full Name:
    Lenny S
    Great post, thanks. I use Zymol ITAL wax on my car only because a reseller (I think) was going out of business and I bought the jar for $55. But I use the HD cleanser before applying the wax and the car looks awesome.
     
  27. MoeMistry

    MoeMistry Rookie

    Sep 9, 2006
    40
    Orange County, CA
    Well-said...at the end of the day, the prep work is far more important than anything else. Zymol does make some great products, and as their waxes go, I'd buy Concours before I'd consider Ital. Look at the ratios of white-yellow carnauba. As stated here already, there really isn't a specific wax for a brand, rather it should focus on the particular manufacturer of the paint.
     

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