| Author |
Message |
Verell Boaen (Verell)
Intermediate Member
Username: Verell
Post Number: 1033
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Sunday, August 03, 2003 - 8:54 pm: | |
The real reason is that punching a hole won't drain the filter unless you manage to destroy either the bottom of the standpipe, or the rubber anti-drainback valve.
Best keep the filter level with a big wad of rags/paper towels under it. Have done many a 3x8 oil change & have yet to dump any oil on the engine. |
Lawrence Coppari (Lawrence)
Member
Username: Lawrence
Post Number: 727
Registered: 4-2002
| | Posted on Friday, August 01, 2003 - 5:26 pm: | |
Punching a hole with a sharp pointed object such as an ice pick does not produce particles. Drilling a hole does.
When you punch with a sharp point you create huge tensile stresses - and strain - beyond the ultimate stress it can withstand (in the plasticity portion of the yield curve). This is because the area is minute - stress is force divided by area. The metal merely pulls apart. It does not shatter like glass. No metal particles are released.
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mario ottaway (Mario308)
New member
Username: Mario308
Post Number: 14
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Friday, August 01, 2003 - 2:53 pm: | |
Hi, Just started her up from cold with a new UFI filter fitted and guess what, It's fine again, the oil pressure red light goes out faster, the gauge rises straight after that. That was the quickest Ferrari fix I have done took all of 10 minutes to change he filter.
Cheers,
Mario. |
Hans E. Hansen (4re_gt4)
Intermediate Member
Username: 4re_gt4
Post Number: 1611
Registered: 4-2002
| | Posted on Friday, August 01, 2003 - 12:16 am: | |
Oil/filter change is normal Ferrari proceedure. Don't wear white clothes. Bring tools, rags, and a large dictionary exclusively full of swear words. Beat the filter into submission, and then coat the engine in rags. Suck on the rags, as the high from the petroleum will make you *slightly* more tolerant of what is to come. Try 4 different filter wrenches from Sears. Two will be under-sized, two will be over-sized. Then unscrew the drain plug. Finding an Allen wrench of the appropriate size requires visiting 4 states. When you find one, it will be 3/4" drive, which requires another visit to Sears. Upon unscrewing it, you realize that the aluminum threads in the oil pan have adherred to the iron drain plug. Visits to high end tool stores reveal that Heli-Coil doesn't make stuff for that plug size. The nearest F-dealer (200 miles away) has a special heli-coil set made just for this purpose. So, load the car onto a flatbed and truck it to the dealer to complete the oil change.
But other than that, it's a piece of cake. Don't worry, just do it. |
dave handa (Davehanda)
Intermediate Member
Username: Davehanda
Post Number: 1447
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Thursday, July 31, 2003 - 9:46 pm: | |
Oops, Carl Rose has a oil change procedure under the "parts and service" heading here on this site.
Sorry Carl. :-) |
dave handa (Davehanda)
Intermediate Member
Username: Davehanda
Post Number: 1446
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Thursday, July 31, 2003 - 9:44 pm: | |
Ron,
Any cheapo strap wrench you can get around the filter housing should work fine. Oil changing is easy on the 308/328. If you need a little "hand holding", go to www.expensivecar.com and check their tech section, there are instructions for changing the oil. |
Ron Vallejo (Ron328)
Junior Member
Username: Ron328
Post Number: 247
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, July 31, 2003 - 9:42 pm: | |
Thank you for all the info, guys. I'll stick to UFI or Baldwin as Dave suggested.
BTW, what size oil wrench do I need? Will it be similar for UFI (currently in my 328) and Baldwin? I may use the latter for my next oil change. I have gathered enough info and courage from this site that I think I'm ready to do the next oil change myself. (The nearest F-dealer where I live (Ste. Genevieve, MO) is 300 miles away, so I need to learn to work on my car to some extent).
Thanks again.
Ron |
DGS (Dgs)
Junior Member
Username: Dgs
Post Number: 239
Registered: 5-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, July 31, 2003 - 8:27 am: | |
I think the "punching the hole" concept came from the idea that letting air into the filter would let the oil drain back into the motor. This was quickly followed by the theory that metal chipped off the filter housing while punching the hole could also drain back into the engine.
The consensus seems to have settled out to pack rags around the filter before removing, and don't punch holes in the filter while it's on the car. |
dave handa (Davehanda)
Intermediate Member
Username: Davehanda
Post Number: 1416
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Wednesday, July 30, 2003 - 2:02 pm: | |
Ron,
The defective UFI's was some time ago, and were recalled (at least through FNA) and should be long gone now. I would consider all Fram PH2804-1's to be "defective" in the box; don't use them.
Use an UFI or a Baldwin, your choice... |
Verell Boaen (Verell)
Member
Username: Verell
Post Number: 1000
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Saturday, July 26, 2003 - 9:56 pm: | |
re: popping a hole in the filer.
When working properly, the standpipe combined with the anti-drainback valve will keep the better part of a quart of oil in the filter.
To keep from spilling oil somewhere you don't want it while removing the filter, You have to either be good enough at keeping the filter level & quickly slip a rag under it to absorb any oil that spills over the standpipe, or else punch a hole in the filter so the oil will safely run down the side of the bell housing to be cleaned up later(shudder).
If you want to drain the filter once you've got it out, about the only way is to punch a hole in it. |
Peter Polasek (Peterp)
Junior Member
Username: Peterp
Post Number: 116
Registered: 8-2002
| | Posted on Saturday, July 26, 2003 - 1:08 pm: | |
Fram makes two filters that fit -- the PH2804-1 is the model specified in the owners manual and it has a standpipe. If you look up Ferrari in the reference guides (at Pep Boys, Discount Auto Parts, etc), it points to a something like PH1. This is marked as a "racing" filter but it has no standpipe, so this shouldn't be used and that model will delay oil pressure build-up. I haven't seen UFI's priced that high, I picked one up at Ferrari of Orlando for $18 while visiting Florida.
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Ron Vallejo (Ron328)
Junior Member
Username: Ron328
Post Number: 241
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Friday, July 25, 2003 - 3:41 pm: | |
On the second thread that Steve posted, there was a mention of popping a hole on the oil filter prior to oil change. Why is that?
Ive heard of defective Fram and UFI (suffix 00)
filters. Is Baldwin a better one?
Thanks. |
Steve Magnusson (91tr)
Intermediate Member
Username: 91tr
Post Number: 1974
Registered: 1-2001
| | Posted on Friday, July 25, 2003 - 9:07 am: | |
Peter -- This post:
http://www.ferrarichat.com/discus/messages/256120/19896.html
has a sketch showing how the internal anti-drainback valve works in conjunction with the standpipe (if present) to trap some oil on the output side of the filter to minimize repressurization time after restart (on applications with an "inverted" oil filter mounting arrangement).
This post:
http://www.ferrarichat.com/discus/messages/256120/1679.html
show a defective anti-drainback valve in a Fram PH2804-1 (so even though it has a standpipe, it would not hold the extra oil inside the filter after shutoff). |
djmonk (Davem)
Member
Username: Davem
Post Number: 349
Registered: 1-2002
| | Posted on Friday, July 25, 2003 - 8:12 am: | |
Baldwin is certainly cheaper than a UFI at least stateside. 9ish versus 30 something. |
mario ottaway (Mario308)
New member
Username: Mario308
Post Number: 13
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Friday, July 25, 2003 - 4:04 am: | |
My Mondial QV has also a Fram filter (Orange Colour) fitted. I've always had the white ones UFI? before but I did an oil & filter change earlier this year & used a Fram. I too have noticed a longer duration of red oil light & slow oil pressure needle rising on first start up. Will try a new UFI next week, I've suspected the filter for some time.
Cheers,
Mario. |
dave handa (Davehanda)
Intermediate Member
Username: Davehanda
Post Number: 1393
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Friday, July 25, 2003 - 2:33 am: | |
I think from prior posts, the Fram standpipe works, it is the rubber valve that is supposed to hold the oil back in the filter that doesn't work. Actually, even the UFI and Baldwin will eventually lose all the oil too. But I think the general consensus is that it can take a couple weeks or more versus a few minutes with the Fram. |
Peter S�derlund /328 GTB -88 (Corsa)
Member
Username: Corsa
Post Number: 345
Registered: 4-2001
| | Posted on Friday, July 25, 2003 - 1:19 am: | |
Ok. So there are two senders, one for the light and one for the meter.
I only checked the light but I have a feeling that the meter also takes quite a long time to go up on pressure.
I'll change filter next week and come back with some figures.
Is the problem with non-UFI/Baldwin filters that the oil pump must fill up the filter before any significant pressure will build up and that the standpipe, which doesn�t work in FRAM, ensure that the UFI/Baldwin filters always are "full" and consequently it will take less time to build up pressure?
Ciao
Peter
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dave handa (Davehanda)
Intermediate Member
Username: Davehanda
Post Number: 1391
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Friday, July 25, 2003 - 12:07 am: | |
The light and the needle on the gauge respond to different senders. Peter is talking about the light... |
V.Z. (Ama328)
Junior Member
Username: Ama328
Post Number: 200
Registered: 11-2002
| | Posted on Thursday, July 24, 2003 - 11:42 pm: | |
interestingly enough, i just changed oil and filter, had previously used a fram filter that i'd had around the garage for several yrs, went to the UFI, so will be most interested to see if maybe the fram contributed to my slow gauge. |
V.Z. (Ama328)
Junior Member
Username: Ama328
Post Number: 199
Registered: 11-2002
| | Posted on Thursday, July 24, 2003 - 11:40 pm: | |
try tapping the gauge on the dash next time when you first start it up. Might be the needle is sticking a bit in it's old age. Noticed on my 328 that sometimes it takes the needle longer to move than what i remember(dunno if memory is accurate), and when tapped, the needle seems to work as i remember. |
dave handa (Davehanda)
Intermediate Member
Username: Davehanda
Post Number: 1380
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Thursday, July 24, 2003 - 1:05 pm: | |
Ken,
The safest bet right now is to stick with the UFI and Baldwin. Most all other filters out there; Purolator, K&N, Mobil 1, etc. do not have the proper standpipe; and in the case of the Fram, has the standpipe, but doesn't work, so the oil light stays on longer than it should. |
Ken (Allyn)
Intermediate Member
Username: Allyn
Post Number: 1084
Registered: 10-2001
| | Posted on Thursday, July 24, 2003 - 12:29 pm: | |
I like the Fram grippy top though. Any opinions on Wix? |
Verell Boaen (Verell)
Member
Username: Verell
Post Number: 995
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Thursday, July 24, 2003 - 11:07 am: | |
Take a look at one. If the hole ends up directly against the sensor diaphram, then it can't safely be enlarged. If the hole expands into a small chamber with the diaphram at the other end, then it could be enlarged as long as you control the depth(ie: use a drill press) so you won't puncture the diaphram.
Odds are the slow build-up is due to the Fram. |
Lawrence Coppari (Lawrence)
Member
Username: Lawrence
Post Number: 719
Registered: 4-2002
| | Posted on Thursday, July 24, 2003 - 6:00 am: | |
Can the hole in an older pressure sender unit be made larger so it reacts faster? |
Peter S�derlund /328 GTB -88 (Corsa)
Member
Username: Corsa
Post Number: 344
Registered: 4-2001
| | Posted on Thursday, July 24, 2003 - 5:59 am: | |
Oups!
I'll change pronto.
Thanks for your input.
Ciao
Peter
|
Phil Hughes (Ferrarifixer)
New member
Username: Ferrarifixer
Post Number: 5
Registered: 7-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, July 24, 2003 - 5:45 am: | |
There is a newish spec oil pressure sender unit which basically just has a larger hole in it. This allows the oil to get in faster and read more accurately.
It's been standard issue as replacement part for a few years now, but you may still have the old one.
But yes, the FRAMM oil filters are total crap and have caused at least 3 engine failures and two car fires that I'm aware of, so remove it pronto! |
DGS (Dgs)
Junior Member
Username: Dgs
Post Number: 211
Registered: 5-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, July 24, 2003 - 4:33 am: | |
I had the same effect with a Fram. Try a Baldwin or UFI. |
Peter S�derlund /328 GTB -88 (Corsa)
Member
Username: Corsa
Post Number: 343
Registered: 4-2001
| | Posted on Thursday, July 24, 2003 - 3:06 am: | |
Hello Ulf.
No, it's FRAM PH28041
Could that be the cause of it?
I have had UFI before.
Ciao
Peter |
Ulf Modig (Ulf308qv)
Junior Member
Username: Ulf308qv
Post Number: 77
Registered: 3-2001
| | Posted on Thursday, July 24, 2003 - 12:45 am: | |
Peter, which filter are you using? UFI? |
Peter S�derlund /328 GTB -88 (Corsa)
Member
Username: Corsa
Post Number: 341
Registered: 4-2001
| | Posted on Thursday, July 24, 2003 - 12:29 am: | |
My 328 takes about 5 second to build up oil pressure from cold. I.e from ignition on until the oil pressure lamp goes off.
I have a feeling that it took less than that before my last oil filter change. Do I have a oil filter problem or something else? Is it normal with 5 second?
Ciao
Peter |