Searched the archives and found excellent information but have a couple of questions: 1. Went to my local MB dealer and bought their hydraulic fluid as recommended. The hydraulic oil MB supplied is: Fuchs Titan ZH5364B SL. This is a synthetic hydraulic fluid. I want to insure this is compatible with the factory supplied fluid currently in use. 2. Found 2 excellent posts detailing the filling procedure. The post by john lamour references an official workshop procedure. I have the 2 volume Ferrari original F355 workshop manual and can find nothing detailing maintenance or repair of the spider top mechanism. Is there a supplement I am missing? Thanks for all the help, John.
I don't have the photo or diagram, but there are two screws on the front face of the reservoir frame that mount the electrical relays for the top. You need to remove those screws and pull the relay board out of the way to expose the large 14MM I think screw to the reservoir. I use the MB oil as perscribed by my local Ferrari Dealer and fill the reservoir with a hypodermic needle. Put paper towls down to catch the drips.
Here is a step by step by our very own chaa!!!!! http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/showpost.php?p=136278178&postcount=25
As far as the fluid, it does not appear to be particularly sensitive to this issue. So far, I have seen all manner of fluids used, including hydraulic jack oil! But most Ferrari dealers recommend Mercedes convertible top fluid, or equivalent. Obviously Mercedes does not make their own fluid. The Mercedes fluid I have seen used in the past was marked "ZH-M". Not what you have, but yours may have superceded it, you might be best to ask the Mercedes dealer. This product meets the Mercedes requirements and should be equivalent (it is what I use): http://pentosin.de/shop_produkt.php?c=214,228&pid=668&vid=&csprache=EN&sid=d5f287be1291f3e62a74144dd20de5b4[/url Specs here: http://pentosin.de/flexxtrader/data/usf/Pentosin%20CHF%2011S_GB.pdf I have the 355 WSM as well, and I do not recall anything on the top mechanism. I can only surmise as you, that it must be a seperate volume. You might ask your local dealer about it, but I doubt they will give you a copy.
Thanks guys! Added 100ml of fluid to bring the reservoir to max level. Thank you for the hypodermic needle tip aeroengineman! The top still only goes halfway down. Using the emergency control switch the pump does not stop but the top will not open completely. Stops at the point where the top frame forks contact the metal plates behind the seats. Thinking I may have air in the system. Any thoughts and recommendations? Thanks again, John.
There are elastic bands, one on each side, that pull the metal bars in the ribbing for the top. If these elastic bands have stretched (commonplace), then you will have to use your hands to manually press the middle bar up as your top retracts, just as if you had a manual 348 top. http://www.club348.com/technical/Tech/348SpiderTopProcess.htm Image Unavailable, Please Login
Thanks BoDoubt but I think the problem is a bit more involved. Removed the panels that cover the hydraulic cylinders. Cycled the system a couple of times. It appears the primary cylinders are operating correctly. The cylinders appear to be fully extended when opening the top, if I am not mistaken. It appears the secondary cylinders should then extend to complete the top opening cycle. The secondary cylinders are not extending, they remain fully retracted. What initiates the secondary cylinder to extend? I see 2 proximity switches on the left assembly, 1 at the bottom of the primary cylinder assembly and 1 at the top at the secondary cylinder end. Operated the switches manually, they "click". Did not check function. Do the secondary cylinders extend at the end of the primary cylinder cycle or in tandem with the primary cylinders? Any ideas? Thanks, John.
A few quick points. First as the roof is closing, and just before the point of it being stuck. Push the centre hood support bar UP a little from inside the car. If the roof now closes then the centure bar is slightly bent. This can be caused by putting something on the roof like a parcel ect while you are opening the door. Also make sure the ENGINE IS RUNNING while the roof is in operation. This makes all the difference believe it or not. I mean sometimes when one is closing the roof with the engine of, the very last part of the closing procedure will not always close the roof right to. But with the engine running the pump has full available power and will close all the time. Try it and you will see Also at each front corner of the roof there is a small spring each side. This spring helps pull the roof forward in the final sequence of the roof closing. Check that they are still attached. I had one of mine snap and this caused the roof to stop in the final part of the sequence. So much so that i had to use my hand to close it that last 6 inches. NOTE: I have used No doubts picture to show you were the front springs can be found (yellow). They are hard to see but lift back the fabric and you will see them. Also the centre bar that needs pushing up (red) to see if its bent while closing. Image Unavailable, Please Login
Appears I was not clear in my description of the problem. The roof closes fine. It will not fully open. Halfway only. The primary cylinders fully extend. The secondary cylinders do not the extend, the roof is not fully open. Thanks again.
Sometimes terminology is an issue. Closing the top means that the driver doesn't get wet while driving in the rain. The cockpit is enclosed because the top is up and therefor closed. Opening the roof means that the driver gets a tan while driving in the Florida sun. The top is unlatched, down, and hidden behind a leather cover. We're presuming that you mean that you can't put the top down far enough to install your leather protective cover. Are you saying that you can't put the top up far enough to manually latch the roof closed?
Nodoubt, appears I need a refresher course in communication! You are correct. I cannot get the top to open sufficiently to install the leather boot cover. The top opens halfway through the cycle, the primary cylinders appear to be OK. The secondary cylinders appear to complete the process if I am correct. They are not functioning. Trying to figure out what signals these cylinders to operate. Frame location? Primary cylinder complete? Proximity switch? I have not tried the pressing the center bow with the car on, will do that after I shovel the foot of snow on my walk!
Now that my friend may be the problem. Push up the bar as the roof is going backwards to the open position, with the engine running. Report back so we can diagnose better I have repaired enough 355 spider roofs to know problem areas.
1st, thank you for all your help. Same situation with the car running and pressure on the bar. Top halfway down. The secondary cylinders do not start or move at all. Noted pump tone. As the top moves through the primary cylinder phase the pump tone is constant. Once the primary cylinders are fully extended the pump tone changes. Sounds like the pump is strained at that point. All tests done with the seats fully forward, windows down, using the emergency switch located at the pump unit. Amazed the Ferrari workshop manual has no information regarding this system! Hopefully the wiring diagrams may show what initiates the secondary cylinders to start. Swapped the 2 Bosch relays, no change. Checked the fuses on the unit, appear OK. Confused!
Have you bleed the system completely? And if so which way? Chaa's bleeding of the system write up although very good. Covers topping up the system and giving a general bleeding of the system. But there is a second method to completely and thoroughly bleed the system from scratch( dry with no fluid in the system at all) This includes bleeding the system from the LH side main cylinder that has a bleed nipple on it for this purposes (its hidden under the leather/plastic ram cover. The pressure realise screws (x2) so each pump can be operated independently can be found on the main pump housing. One at the bottom front and one on the very bottom of the box looking at the carpet. You may have done the first (chaa) method, but what about the second method have you done this. If not i can explain more in depth for you is you need.
Hello Lookin, I have a procedure that appears to be per the factory specification, if such a procedure exists! It is listed in the following post: http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/showthread.php?t=88241&highlight=355+bleeding I have not bled per this procedure. Can you advise if this looks correct. If so I will bleed this week. My workshop manual lists no procedure to service the spider top mechanism. The parts book at least lists the system components. If this procedure is accurate I am unclear on a couple of points. 1. I assume this is done with the top in the closed position? 2. The left and right primary cylinders must be completely disconnected from the frame? Does this also bleed the secondary cylinders? Thank you again for all your help and patience!
Yes that's the procedure, though i am very surprised to see it on forum. 1. Yes this is done with the top closed. 2. yes disconnect the cylinders from the frame, though it is much easier to disconnect them from the bottom. The cylinders must be free to move up and down and you will find that undone from the bottom they will slide up and down nicely in the U shaped brackets that held/hold them3. the secondary cylinders take care of them self's while you are bleeding the Primaries. It is also advisable to have a bud help you bleed the system. This is because there is only one main bleed nipple and with a tube attached it is very easy to knock over the container that the tube feeds into due to the cylinder movement. And while you are working one side your bud can hold the tube set up in place.
Thank you again for the help and tips! I will enlist my 13 year old. Good character building experience!
Thank you to all! The top functions fine. After studying the top mechanism and the suggestions to push the top bar up, thanks lookin and No Doubt, I found I was pushing the bar back, not up. Light went on in my dim brain, pushed up, the top suddenly collapsed correctly, activated the switch, went down as it should. No need to bleed the system at this time. As is usually the case, Operator Error! Thank you.
That's good news Thought it does mean that the centre bar may be a little bent due to something a little heavy being placed on top of the roof while closed and locked. Simple fix though, while the roof is closed and locked simply push the bar up as to bend it up a little (millimeters) Job sorted
1999 355 will not enter the sequence to lower the top. Just beeps. I suspect a seat position sensor. Any suggestions on how and what to test?
