Passing CA Smog with a 400i

As you may have seen my 1984 400i is for sale. I have had at least two inquiries from potential buyers in CA. They are not sure how to get the car so that it will pass the CA smog tests. I know there are several (many) 400i's in CA. What modifications are necessary to pass? I want to pass info on to the potential buyers.
Ken
p.s. Ads are on: FChat, Hemmings and now eBay.

 

Good day Ken,

If your car does not already have a CA "Bar" sticker, then it can be a lot of work and/or not cost effective. Here is a post from a previous 400i owner and his trials and outcome with his 400i:

https://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/threads/smog-and-importation-into-california-of-a-400i.233297/

I believe the fellow gave up and sold the car out of state:

https://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/threads/farewell.394323/

There has been some discussions on Bring-a-trailier Boxer auctions, where some sellers or posters somewhat implying that getting a Boxer to comply with CA was not a big deal... well, some posters did present what was entailed and the costs... at least for a Boxer:

The above is for a carbed Boxer which is not as easy to deal with than an injected car. You have a newer and injected car and a different model and so it technically should be easier. How much so is unknown to me. However, without the CA 'Bar" sticker and various emission equipment needed and installed, I suspect that it will be a bit pricey and would doubt that that simply adding some cats would be enough. Hopefully others will chime in with their experiences and knowledge.

Cheers,

Sam

 

It wouldn't surprise me if it wasn't even possible today as you need California BAR papers/approval, and getting that approval in the late 80s for a 400i may be far different than it is today (or even more difficult from the 2009 thread that Sam linked) -- but I know no specifics. I believe the emission systems that were added when it could be done were:

1. Cats.
2. O2 sensor(s).
3. A faux-Lambda system with a frequency valve and aftermarket ECU (e.g., Neutronics, DCJohnson) added to alter the control pressure based on the O2 sensor(s) signal(s).
4. A fuel evaporation control system (charcoal canister, sealed gas cap, and the associated plumbing).

You might try some searches on some of those keywords for prior threads or a search using "California BAR" by Rifledriver as he has posted some useful stuff/experience dealing with that previously IIRC.

There might also be some mechanical physical stuff (that might be all US): bumpers, door reinforcements, headlights?, exterior running lights, etc.

I think, unfortunately, that the practical short answer for you and them is that they need to find a 400i that already has the necessary CA BAR paperwork/documents as Sam indicated.

 

My 84 manual has BAR, and I removed an air pump, O2 sensors, and cats.

 

Weren't your O2 sensors connected to an ECU?

(I forgot air injection pump.)

 

Probably buried in there somewhere.

 

And did you remove the frequency valve added to the WUR plumbing or just leave all the Bosch CIS plumbing as-is?

 

I'd have to go check, been a while since I saw the engine as it's up on my lift.

 

Thanks all. The 512BB story is pretty scary but all those Webers would make it tough. bjwhite's story looks better, but I don't understand. Does it still meet regs with equipment removed? Or did he get sticker and then remove it? I'm sure there is annual testing.
I just read the link to the 2008 post and here is an interesting point, "Now your car is no different from any other car on the road (just better looking and a lot faster). I also believe that cars that pre-date 1975 are exempt and that that date moves up a year every year...but I am not certain." If this is true add 14 years to 1975 and we are up to 1989! So our our cars now exempt from BAR??
I'm not going to pass this info on the prospective CA buyers yet. I still have questions.
Ken

 

I just read the est of the 2008 post and everyone says the 1975 date is fixed not a variable.
Ken

 

This is true. I just bought a 1988 Porsche Carrera in Atlanta and registered it in California last month. The smog testing was pretty thorough and required the emissions diagram under the engine bonnet to pass. It’s only getting harder to pass smog in California.

 

I've been down this road many times and there is a lot of history on getting your grey market car registered in Calif. Times change, so do the rules.
-C.A.R.B. (calif air recourses board) had to have issued a sticker in the drivers door jamb. It shows the VIN No. and key information about the motor type and motor year. To get the sticker you have to pass a dyno test under load at 2000 rpm. Then pass a visual inspection that all smog equipment for that motor is present and functioning. Then pass the tailpipe emissions test. CARB referees are robots who simply interpret and apply what is in their applied smog equipment book.

The days of obtaining these certifications are over. Today Calif DMV and CARB know all the tricks and can spot a grey market VIN immediately in their database. And in general both organizations have really put the screws to any more grey market cars in leaking into Calif. (Thank you sloppy conversion shops of the 1980s, lawsuits, poor workmanship and lots of cheating).

If your Ferrari has a CARB certificate and sticker and remains currently registered, you are golden. However, it has to remain in calif and pass the usual bi-annual inspection. These are all grandfathered in. If that car ever gets titled out of California, you cannot return it to California and claim grandfather status.

Lastly, the cut off year for smog tests in Calif. remains 1975. i.e. 1975 model year (as shown on the title, not the date of mfgr.) are exempt from smog certificates. A 1976 and newer car has to get smogged. You are not in the clear if you have a 1974 Grey Market car. It is my current experience that if you approach the CA DMV today, with a Euro VIN no. you will still not be able to register the car in Calif. You have to prove to the DMV with a letter from the mfgr that that specific VIN no. is a NTHSA (Federal rqmt) approved model. It can be done, but it is exceedingly painful. Ask me how I learned this.

Two options: Find one in CA with the CARB sticker or register out of state. Cars in CA with the sticker are certainly more attractive, in state, but there is some debate about the extent of the price premium.

 

So stupid. You guys should change that law.

 

@bjwhite Agreed. However: serious 'car guys' population in California ~325,000. California's population as of this morning 39,243,552. Not looking good to slide any assembly bills thru Sacramento.

 

Maybe, but a concerted effort could do wonders. Logical non-car people would
be behind it also.

 

Good day Paul,

What is interesting is that some well known CA shops/Sellers state often that it is not a "big deal" to get a Boxer... and carbed no less... which simply emits gasses even when the engine is off ... CA compliant. I challenged these sellers on BaT, etc and some took offence to my comments for potential buyers to do their home work and due diligence before blindly assumed it was a non issue. Another BaT poster did present his view and info that I included in my earlier post... If anything it should provide a relative magnitude price of the costs (although some have stated that the compliance price they "heard" was about 1/2 of what the poster indicated). Even so, given the Gov bureaucracy involved, I think it is a safe bet to not expect guarantees even with the $ spent.

Cheers,

Sam

 

Good day Brain,

I cannot speak for CA, but in my dealings with various level of Gov, or people, I find very few that are truly logical and/or willing to look at the cost/benefit of decisions. In my City, there is a complete lack of interest or concern to examine Data, evidence, etc with an objective mind and so many decisions are made by those with an agenda, narrative, or without the suitable skills/background to make an informed decision.

Given that CA has some pretty heavy hitters in the Auto World and these people have significant influence in Gov and Policies, that even they appear to have been unsuccessful in getting movement on this issue.... which has been ongoing for many years now.

Cheers,

Sam

 

Washington got rid of all emissions testing as the cost of the program outweighed the number of vehicles that failed.

Plus, even before that they had a 25 year rolling exemption. At the very least California should have a rolling timeline, not locked to 1975.

 

In France it's slightly different: you can ask for a "vintage licence" as long as the car is older than 30 years, unmodified and not anymore produced. This license allows to drive even in the low emission area, and also allows us to use vintage license plates (namely the black ones instead lf the ugly new ones).

This being said, some of our cars can be horrendous, and this is bad for the hobby. Given the sort of amount that we throw in our cars, we can also make our best so as to keep emission within reasonable limits. During Charbonnière Classic Rally, I was just being a Morgan that was just insane in terms of noise and pollution. If such owner keep driving in the low emission area, no doubt that we will not benefit from the current exemption for long.

 

I have a CA registered car that I bought from a very reputable dealer, and definitely passed smog, but I can't find any CARB sticker anywhere.

In my ignorance/excitement/PTSD from the cost of the cylinder head gaskets and partial engine rebuild I did first, I stupidly told the shop to "scrap all that rusty exhaust stuff and put in some shiny new pipes".

I'm told that many/most drivers don't run with cats and only put them in temporarily to pass smog, but that doesn't map to the CARB cert and all the secondary emissions kit.

My main concern in running without cats is that the car is technically illegal, and if I crash it the insurance company could probably refuse to pay. Exponentially worse if someone gets seriously injured, even if it's 100% their fault, in that I could conceivably find myself in a lot of trouble for being hit while driving an illegal car.

 

No doubt they would try to avoid the burden of the cost, but the insurer would have to proove that the exhaust was the cause of the accident.

If I were you, I would notify the insuerer about the exhaust being used, explaining that you revert to original factory spec.

 

Insurance companies have no interest in paying out a claim and so they will use whatever technicality they can to avoid paying. Insurance policies have lots of "fine print" which could void or minimize the policy's coverage. For example, here in Canada many auto owners are unaware that if they leave their residing Province for more than 30/60 days (time depends on the insurer and policy) that their insurance is void... unless the insurer is notified and specific amendments are made to the policy. An extension to this, is that a Canadian auto policy can be immediately voided if the insured vehicle is used in a crime, driving without a valid license, or even entering some areas (e.g. driving within Mexico). So... never assume what coverage you have without verifying the policy's details and/or at least have a written and documented agreement of the coverages you expect.

Secondly, although it could be proven that the non OEM exhaust was not the cause of a particular accident, Insurance companies typically have far more resources at their disposal ($ on hand, lawyers on staff/contract, etc) to stretch out a legal battle for a number of years (easily 7-10 years). The result is that during this time, the individual would be paying legals fees in order to keep the process from stopping which could cause significant financial hardship and/or cause bankruptcy. Here in Canada this type of "game" is played with those that have suffered physical injury. In many cases the facts are not in dispute, however the payout amount is... and so the insurance companies will try and stretch out the process so as to encourage legal/time "fatigue" of those affected with the hopes that that a lower or much lower payout is accepted.

Cheers,

Sam

 

Just got my DMV renewal notice and I need to smog the car.

Is there a CARB/DMV website where I can plug in my VIN and see what I'm supposed to have on the car?

I could drop into a testing center and have them look it up, but there are some downsides to that.

As I say I can't find the CARB sticker, but the car must have had what it needed when I bought it.

 

Sometimes it's based on the luck of the draw of the inspector and smog center. For my F430 with Fabspeed headers and exhaust, he did a quick visual inspection (not knowing what to really look for), plugged in the OBD, and I passed. For my 458, I failed on the spot 2 times but he kept giving me hints on the ready codes and on the third attempt I passed. For my 1988 Carrera, I drove the car for an hour straight before testing. I got the cats hot and ready, and it passed with a tail sniffer. However, the inspector was way too thorough in the inspections and even had a mirror looking over every inch underneath the car and in the engine bay. What car are you trying to pass?

 

Rob, the sticker isn’t always on the door jamb… on my 412, it is under the bonnet.

Assuming you still have the system intact, you should just be able to take it to any smog place and they will do a “visual” inspection (not sure to confirm wha - when was the last time they saw another CARB certified 400/412?!?), put it on the dyno rollers and stick a sniffer on the exhaust. As long as you have the same equipment you purchased it with, it should pass. I have never had issues with my 412 over the last 8 years I’ve owned it.

Good luck!

Ruben