Engine out major service, and now no spark or fuel

My guess is when you removed the after - market wiring at the front, you accidentally removed a major power feed to the car. That wiring mess at the ABS controller board is really messy and convoluted, and it is also a point where many after market installer will tap power.

Find that power feed missing and you will solve your problem. It is not something mechanical related to your engine work.

 

Audio Installers = splice & dice monkeys. Irks me every time I see stuff like that.

 

The brake pump uses battery and ignition lock accessory wiring/power. The starter, of course, uses the ignition lock start wiring. It seems you have a problem with the ignition lock run circuits.

It's hard to see where they spliced in the stereo equipment in your photo, but it's so far away from the ignition key source, I wouldn't think it would cut off the whole ignition system. Don't discount a random relay failure. e.g. relay "e" in the passenger footwell controls a lot of the ignition powered systems (lights, HVAC, windows, etc).


Pull out relay "e" and see if you are getting ignition key power to the relay coil (pin 86) when the ignition key is in run. Also look for constant battery power on pin 30. If they are good, fit the relay and turn the ignition on and off to see if the relay clicks. Then we can work downstream to individual items. However, unless you've blown lots of fuses, I can't see how all the systems you've mentioned could stop working.

These inoperative systems also have lots of different earths, so I don't see how an earthing problem would take out all these systems (unless it was the earth for relay "e" labelled "100" in the wiring diagrams. I'm not exactly sure where that is. It could be one of those earths behind the passenger footwell relay panel (There is an earthing point there which looks like a porcupine it has so many black wires attached to it).

The following diagram (one of many) shows the ignition switch, relay "e" and earth "100" :

F348 Windows Wiring Diagram

There are variations in how the big blue wire gets to the relay panel, so that's why you should check relay "e" contacts first. Also, it's easier to check the volts on the relay than it is to pull the relay panel apart and check the plugs on the back.

There is a previous thread on the forum in which a 348 owner found a problem with the blue wire between the ignition lock and the passenger footwell relay panel (he removed an alarm system and I think the wiring wasn't connected back up correctly).

 

Just an afterthought. The ignition key run/on power to the engine management wiring doesn't even go to relay "e", so the problem may indeed be further upstream than relay "e". That is, the wiring from the ignition key to the footwell relay panel.

Anyway, relay "e" is a good starting point. You can also test continuity between the steering column electrical plug and relay "e" pin 86.

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This is an extract from Ian's diagram. Do the basic check first at the relay panel in the boot:

1. Do you have permanent 12V supply at the fuses 3, 4 & 15
2. With the ignition "on", do you have 12V supply at the Blue/Red wire (marked as "IGN PWR")

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Sorry, the more I look at these diagrams, the more the problem seems to be between the ignition lock and the footwell relay panel. Does your fuel filler cap button work with the ignition in run/on?

(EDIT) Miro, the windows actually use relay "g" in the footwell, so it must be upstream of the luggage compartment. The lights use relay "e". Relay "p" for the fuel filler cap will put the power problem well upstream of the luggage compartment panel.

 

I based my suggestion on the fact that the Blue/Red wire to the luggage compartment fuse/relay panel enables four relays for the lights (which are not working) - a, e, f & g and on the fact that the audio amplifier needs permanent and ignition switched supplies which may have been taken from the lines to this relay panel and now, after the audio wiring removal, something is disturbed.

 

I see. What about the running (side) lights? These use relay "b" in the footwell. I suppose the wiring disturbance in the luggage compartment still could have affected these (but perhaps only at the front... unless something is shorting, taking out all of them)

 

I feel for you and hate the stereo hacks from back in the day. I’m sure you’ll track it down.

Robb

 

I can see that the HVAC pressure switch sends a signal (+12V) to certain pins of both engine ECUs which is to slightly increase the idle speed and compensate for the load by the AC compressor. Try to start the engine with the AC pressure switch and the line to the AC compressor clutch unplugged, just to eliminate the possibility of the engine ECUs being affected by something wrong in this part of the HVAC system.

 

Trevor, let us know if we are overloading you with information

I'm happy with just the fuel filler lid test (It will tell me if you are getting ignition power to the footwell relay panel which will affect sidelights, HVAC, windows, engine ECUs... and possibly headlights depending on how your car is wired up.

 

Here's a previous message thread with similar symptoms:

https://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/threads/348-startup-problem.543737/

 

Have you got the wiring loom to the coil packs round the wrong way?

 

The problem is a bit deeper than that, Simon. Trevor's window motors and lights are not even working.

The black tape in the luggage compartment appears to wrapped around the pink and red wires coming from plug 103 in the following ABS diagram. i.e. battery power directly from the footwell battery bus bar.

F348 ABS System Wiring Diagram

Since the brake pump is working, we can assume that that wiring is ok.

 

Try to hot wire it to get it running, if it runs back track until you find the issue.
If it dont run then a wire or 2 are in the wrong place or one of the connecting wire plugs one of the pins get pushed out

 

I have images of wirecutters and sparks in my head....

I suppose the ignition lock may have randomly failed...

https://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/threads/ferrari-348-ignition-switch.585995/#post-146235069

 

Maybe your were getting fuel and plugs are fouled now. Remove and inspect.

 

EDIT: thought it was alarm removed, reread, was stereo system.... but I think same 'power feed' applies
Edit #2: I think starting with the key switch output(powering everything) will be the wire that's been 'cut' is the right start...
My .02 bet... The installer used a major power feed wire, cut it to tap/power into his alarm. The other end of said (cut)wire was spliced to one of the alarm output wires, thus 'completing' the circuit. When you cutout the alarm, said 'cut' power wire is now disconnected, and will require a length of same gauge, spliced to both ends.
2 ways to find...
a) look for a single wire cut out (same color, hopefully) at both ends. Test for power at least 1 end.. Splice back...
b) Download wiring diagram of said alarm, and trace those ends. Perhaps if lucky, the install instructions will offer a clue to which. If most power is not there, it will usually be a larger gauge feed!

 

Not had to debug this kind of problem on my 348 and am probably not as clued up as some of the others on here, though I’d like to think I understand the basics enough to share some thoughts.

Firstly, my understanding of the problem:

No Spark - Am assuming this has been verified, at least at the ignition leads and on both banks. Not sure not starting on fueling through the intake would be verification of this. (Though starting via this mechanism would confirm a spark was present )

No Fueling – Dry Fuel Line and Filter. (Could be the pump is not pumping or the fuel line is blocked).

The Crank Sensors were not removed, therefore should not have been disturbed.

The Cams were taken out and replaced with new seals and gaskets

– Did the CAM sensor get disconnected? (Though if the CAM was left disconnected I would expect the system to fall-back to a crank only mode which would just take longer for the car to start. Though have never verified the 348 does have this as a fall-back on a CAM failure)

– Did the CAMs get refitted correctly? (If the CAMs are fitted incorrectly and the CAM signal appears in the wrong place, the ECU will not be able to sync. In isolation, the Crank Signal will seem OK as will the CAM signal, however the relative position would be incorrect and the electronics will not know which signal to trust and therefore not sync. Though if the CAM was fitted incorrectly there would also be the possibility of a problem with Piston/valve clearance).

If the ECU can-not see a crank/cam signal, or verify they are correctly synced, it will not be able to determine when to fire injection and fueling and not attempt to.

Also, after the engine out, were the ECU’s reconnected the right way round?


There’s no Alarm system fitted, so can’t be the cause


You also state you have recently noticed:-

- No interior power, No headlights, no running lights, no HVAC, no Windows etc but you also state that you can turn on the ignition, hear the brake pump and some other electrical noise in the front passenger side and the engine will crank.

- Turn on the ignition and the brake pump and some other electrical noise in the front passenger side can be heard and though the engine won’t start, it will crank.

Was it working and this started happening recently, or could it have been not working since the engine was refitted.

(As the fuses are intact, and the devices on different circuits I would have thought this lack of electrical power would have been a common grounding problem, though I would have expected the engine to also not crank. I have a Ground Isolation Switch on my 348 which, when active, isolates the battery totally when active ie would also not allow cranking. Not having looked into the 348 wiring diagram with respect to this, I don’t really have any suggestions with respect to this bit and while the issues could be related, I’m not sure.).

Would be interested to know the root cause When you get it identified.

In summary, and in addition to the suggestions in the other posts,
Have the CAMs' been refitted correctly? As this could cause an ECU syncing problem.
Have the Two ECU's been re-connected the right way round?
Is the ECU receiving a Crank and Cam signal?
.

Good Luck

T.D.