Hello Gentlemen! I am a new member from Europe. Introduction already posted in the proper section. Read LOTS of topics here in advance, but could not find 100% answer regarding the 575`s with the upgraded 540hp-engine. Any of your help/information is greately appreciated: 1) From when on (modellyear, VIN, assembly#) did the 575`s recieve the engine-upgrade from 515HP to 540HP? 2) Did this engine-upgrade apply to all 575`s or only the ones with FHP or even only the ones with HGTC? 3) Was this the same engine as the Superamerica (F133/G) or was it the early 612 Scaglietti-engine (F133/F)? 4) Is there any visual way if looking at an specific engine/car of interest, so one can for sure tell that this is the 540HP version? THANK YOU VERY MUCH in advance & best regards, Toby
Toby. No 575Ms had a 540 hp engine. Both the F133F and F133G had substantial changes to get 540 hp. The F133F configuration does not match the 575M engine bay with the control for the variable intake manifold on the opposite end of the engine. Late 575Ms had more than the 515 hp of early 575Ms due to changes in the exhaust system and Motronic ECUs, but Ferrari never claimed any increase in hp.
Thanks, Terry, for replying! To behonest, I was really hoping YOU would chime in, as I first tried to send you a PM which the board - for whatever reasons - did not allow me to. Reason I am asking that "540hp-queastion" is, that I am in the market for a 456/550/575 and within all the topics I had read in advance, I found a post from you that the EUROPEAN 575-cars with the HGTC package should have a 540hp-enginge. At least this was, what I understood from it, but I could be very wrong, as not being a native-speaker. That post was, IIRC, in context with a topic regarding the differences between a standard 575-engine (F133/E, 515hp) and the 575-Superamerica-engine (F133/G, 540hp). If that would be true, I would enginewise focus my search on a 575M HGTC...which I am not so sure if they are carwise a good choice (more rare, more expensive in purchase, more expensive in spareparts). That the 612 engine (F133/F) would technically not fit, is a valuable info - thanks! Sorry for asking again: is there any clue to clearly identify a 575Superamerica-engine (F133/G) without dismantellng? Visually? By the ECU-numbers? Thanks & best regards, Toby
Hej Erik! Sure, but starting with a 540hp-base-engine to put a new exhaust on is even more fun. Better is the enemy of good, as we use to say here.
@tazandjan: Terry, I managed to find your older posting regarding the EURO 575 HGTC‘s...it is posting #8 on this topic: https://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/threads/575-sa-vs-575m-engine.280517/ That was in 2010, so maybe old wisdom that got replaced by new wisdom meanwhile. Image Unavailable, Please Login
Toby- Sounds like I just made a typo and meant 515 hp. Euro HGTCs definitely do not have Superamerica or 612 engines or 540 hp. The paint job on 612 and Superamerica engines (same scheme) is different from the 575M engine paint. Here are four photos with the 575M engines on top, the Superamerica engine next, and the 612 engine on the bottom. Around the time the 612 first came out in the 2003/2004 timeframe, 575M intake manifolds were modified with bosses on the front and rear for the intake manifold controls on both the 575Ms and the 612s. Two 575M engine photos show an early model without the bosses and a late one with bosse, the Superamerica engine clearly shows late model 575 (575M and Superamerica) intake manifold bosses. You can see the forward control for the intake manifold on the 612 engine photo. On the 575s it is in the back. Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login
Add a supercharger and you have a beast. I have seen it on a few 456s. ProChargers which are almost like a belt driven turbo. Have you any cars in sight?
Erik, I am a big fan of boost (still got „SAAB turbo“ written on my heart), but boost AND high compression do not work. So boosting an F116/F133-engine would be a very expensive conversion, as you need 12 new pistons, maybe even rods. All would have to be custommade = expen$$$ive. Maybe one could realize 0,2-0,3bar on stock compression, but that would be max. +50hp => not worth the trouble/expenses to fit a boost-system, not to mention the risk your engine will not even handle that low boost, meaning even more $$$ down the drain. Regarding „any cars in sight?“: the usual suspects now offered on the European market. None of these is a perfect match to what I would like. At least about 5 cars come pretty close. Have not even testdriven one. Thats my next task, so I can get a better feeling if a 456 or a 550/575 is what I want...or not a Ferrari at all: I think the condition of Ferrari-interiours is unfortunately VERY substandard, especially for such a top-of-the-line marque. Can spend up to 100k on a new car/toy for me, but do not have to, als I already am blessed to own some nice rides...and have two healthy feet ;-)
I understand! 575 interiors are quite a notch over the 456/550 ones. But when you start to love a car, you can accept some «imperfections». What kind of other cars do you have? Cheers from Oslo. Erik
Just throw on a set of headers, full 2.5" exhaust and you'll easily pick up 100bhp. The stock exhaust is hilariously restrictive.
I had also thought I read here that the rear end might not be beefy enough for even significantly wider/stickier tires so “forced induction” could point out other weak points as well? I’ve noted on the forum I have and have raced a Miata with an FM turbo with 10psi and for street use, no biggie but In race use the heat is impressive and I never worried about burning to death in a racecar till I got the extra heat and complexity that came with the turbo and the additional oil cooler. If I had advice for my younger self I would have reminded myself even more intensely of the old adage….no replacement for displacement… that all being said I have a completely irrational amount of lust for the twin turbo delorean owned by @white out ;-)
The drivetrain is ultra solid. I am sure it could take 7-800 hp. Just a littlebit of boost would give an enormous amount of extra power.
Tobias, for your budget in Ferrari land you could also get a 599, which has a whack more power. Although the way it’s delivered makes the engine feel more top-end race and less torquey than the 575. Ferrari interiors were on a quality roll at that time, also, so it should feel better built than a 575, though you may prefer the 575 style, I do. Kind of know what you mean about substandard but it depends on your comparables. A 575 interior has better leather, design and feel than a Vanquish of the same era, say. Elements are better than the early Bentley Contis also. Though the Ferrari stickies are rubbish. No excuses for that. 575s have so much difference between cars that you absolutely have to test drive them. If you find one and get a Fabio exhaust you will have a 575 with more than 540 hp (many made more than the claimed 515 anyway) that sounds wonderful. And the standard cars are fast, take it from me, I test drive the latest supercars and my 575 is still damn fast when it gets going.
Later 575 engines did have some changes over original spec, to spot these versions take a look at the front of the inlet manifold and you will notice the cast in bosses for the location of the actuator fitting for the variable inlets to be fitted at the front of the engine the same as the 612, but they will be untapped. Internally the later 575 and early 612 engines are exactly the same, same part numbers etc, the extra horses found in the 612 engine are purely stabled in the software of the same type of Bosch ecu, A number of people such as 360 Trev will open the stable door for your 575 to also release them along with exhaust upgrades etc
Nick, I definately plan to go the “exhaust-route”...this is “free” hp in sense of that no mechanical stress is added...stress gets even less. Would like to go 3”, if space allows. If I decide for a 456, I aim at 600Nm, if I decide for a 550/575 I aim at 700Nm. Horsepower is a bit secondary to me, I want the torque, as these are all heavy cars. The plus in hp would be just an incidental benefit for me, guessing at 500hp (456) respectively 600hp (575).
Darius, I would like to stay as “low tech” as possible, so the even newer F’s are out, though I really like the design of the 612...and it is even a 2+2 ;-) @interiour-quality: I stay with my opinion, 456/550/575 is horrible if one takes into account for what a Ferrari stands (pure luxury, top quality, top pricetags). There are sticky buttons, the idiotic “slim-radio-headunit” in the non-M 456’s, headliner problems, door-window-problems, the warping dashboards, the warping surroundings of the 550/575 rear-package-shelf, very sensitiv seat-leather if in a light colour. There are a lot of cheaply build cars that are 10 or even 20 years older and hold up MUCH better in the interiour...also there were some not cheaply build cars of that age, to which applies the same (better quality) and that even make fun: just take some 80’s/90’s Porsche, Alpina, Mecedes, BMW, Bentley, SAAB). Best interiour quality I ever witnessed yet was a mid or late 90’s Bentley: all that looked like leather, was...all that looked like wook, was...all that looked like metal-chrome, was. There was a green&tan 1995 Bently Turbo S for sale for ages in southern France by a dealer...would have loved to buy that...now that I have got the funds, it is gone. Though I would still been frightend with not a single metric screw and the weired hydraulics the B-cars have ;-) So a Ferrari definately still has its strong “prol arguments.
Erik, if the board allows me to, I’ll send you a PM. Some are mentioned in my introduction-posting, that you can find here: https://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/threads/hello-from-germany-in-the-market-for-a-456-550-575.648438/ Thanks, Toby
The pure raw-leather itself (Connolly) - yes. But dying and applying definately not: all that shrinking,warping, bubbling you see on F‘s cars is not to justify. Especially if one takes into account that a 1993-2006 F is usually a pampered piece (heated garage, meticulously serviced) that has seen nearly no use in its 15 to 28 years of age: nearly all cars WAY less than 100k kms / 60k mls. A BMW or Mercedes of that age has usually 200-300k kms / 120-180k mls on it...mostly with less meticulous service as the cars become „just old used cars“ and changed hands to 4th or 5th owner...a lot of lantern/sidewalk/in-the-sun parking/storage, too...no heated garages ;-) Then there is still the hefty pricetag these F-cars had compared to their BMW/Mercedes counterparts. Don‘t get me wrong: there is no perfect car (at least I still havent found it, though I tried hard), all have their pros and cons.
Tobias, I misread your previous post. You spoke of the condition of the interiors you saw, and I can’t comment on that, having not seen the same cars. I thought you were talking of the perceived quality of the interiors. it sounds like you have seen the usual Ferrari stickies and leather shrinkage/pull. There is no getting away from that, and if you want an interior that doesn’t do that, you’ll have to consider another marque (even a Hyundai). It’s a long term issue. Where I would disagree is your reference to Ferrari as “pure luxury”. I don’t think any Ferrari owner, dealer or exec would say you buy a Ferrari for luxury. That’s Bentley, RR, Maybach. Ferraris are about driving. Interiors come down the list - though not as far down the list as they did in the Fiat era.
Darius- Yup, for your Ferrari money you pay for an engine, maybe a transaxle, and Ferrari throws in the rest of the car.
