Got the motor out, this is the picture of the timing belt

Ok...what the heck happened!!!! It looks like one of the tensioner bearings is just GONE....Well, the second pic shows were it is, lodged in the belt time cover!

Any thoughts on what happened??
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That bearing just about made it through the timing belt cover!

 

Holy ****....

 

DAMN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Never seen one "melted" into the timing cover like that.

 

What would cause this? Excessive RPMs?? I was NOT driving the car at the time that this happened so I don't know...First time I have ever let someone borrow the car (and the last!)...

 

Nah man,not your mates fault. That is just a bearing failure. Can happen.......

 

I just got my old one out to look at and it looks like there is a rubber bushing around the shaft inside the race??? sorry i don't have my "bearings" on bearing parts . But anyway it looks like it is a rubber bushing and it desintergrated and let the tensioner fly off the shaft

 

That was my first thought; but with it melted into the cover, it almost seems like the gap between the idler and the cover went to zero (or minus). Is the idler bolt loose? Anything odd about where the cover bolts down? Anything outside the cover that could have pressed it inward?

 

Now I am wondering what the chances of the motor being intact are...There are no teeth missing (although there are parts that have shreds running through them) on the timing belt....In the oil, I found tiny metal particles about the size of a grain of sand...

What do I have to do find out the answers to what condition my motor is in?

 

As i said it can happen,that is why everyone here recommends the 2 tensioner bearings be replaced every belt change. Also the water pump,as that bearing can fail also. But then again,you never know when they will fail. If i knew,or you,or no doubt or even if brian,then we would be god. You can replace them now with new ones,you have to of course,but they may fail again next year?? You just never never know. Replacing them,heavily reduces the risk of them failing,but it can still happen unfortunately. On a different note,when i do belt changes on "normal" cars,if they tensioner bearings are ok,then im the 1st one to re-use them. Have never had a problem ever in 8 years so far. And ive done 2 t-belts on the same cars,with over 200,000km on them and have re-used the bearings. Makes you wonder if you were just unlucky..............

 

Im 100% sure that the bearing has seized and walked off the inner bearing race into the cover.

 

Ask the pros if it would make any sense (and be safe) to install a new belt/tensioner to enable you to hand turn the motor over to see if valves are contacting with pistons, etc. (plus compression test and leakdown test)...prior to dissassembling the engine.

Water/coolant in the oil? Oil in the coolant? Gear oil OK when you drained it?

 

Pic of a gash on the timing belt....Could something have gotten lodged up there?? Like a rock or a pebble or something??
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For a start,id remove the cylinder heads to see what damage has been done to the tops of the pistons,and then id remove the valves and see how many are bent. After you have established what the top end is like,then id remove the sump and have a look at the bottom end.

 

WOW!! I have never seen that one! I have seen the teeth sheer off the belt, but never a full out bearng failure on a 348. I would really like to know the cause of this. I have seen the bearings fail on the 308/328 cars.

As far as checking for further damage, yank the heads off the engine. You will be able to see the damage quite clearly. I would also drop the sump pan, and pull the main caps, and con rod caps to check for bearing damage.

If you find a piston with good amount of damage to the top..pull it out and make sure the piston crown is not cracked. Also inspect the cylinder liners for damage. These are nickasil coated, and if they are scratched in any way they are considered junk. I have heard however that there is a company that is able to reapply the coating on damaged liners.

In all honesty..a full tear down should be done inorder to clean and inspect everything correctly

 

Have not drained the gear oil yet...No water in oil and no oil in the water.

 

I dont think so man,the cover should be sealed up from the elements to avoid pebbles and dust ect.. That gauge could have been after the bearing failed and it tore the belt up on the bolt head of the failed tensioner maybe?

 

Idler bolt is tight...Nothing odd above the cover or bolts either...Everything looks very normal...

 

So there is some reasonable chance that the head gaskets are uncompromised (though that won't matter once you yank the heads off).

I'm out of my depth here. I've only been through this once, personally...but you'd think that you'd want to do the non-invasive tests (e.g. compression, leak down) before doing the things that will cost money to replace (e.g. head gaskets, etc.).

It's the gaskets and seals that make the rebuild of the 348 motor so darn expensive, after all...but I guess it's going to have to be done that way, and perhaps that makes the leak down and compression tests superfluous.

 

Either way,the engine has to come apart. So id just hook in and have a look. At least you know where you stand with it. A comp/leak down test is just delaying the inevitable. She has to come apart to thoroughly clean and inspect all the bearings,rods,pistons ect.... and to also clean out the metal that you said you had. Imagine doin a quick head-job fix,and you start it and some metal blocks an oil gallery,then you fry the bottom end??? Pull it apart please. Oh,and keep the pics coming too
This post was for the mobieguy,not you no doubt

 

I wouldnt remove the heads so fast, you might have just gotten lucky. Without turning the engine, pull the cam covers and remove the cams. All the valves will then be closed and no further damage can be done by turning the engine over. You can then rotate each cylinder to TDC in turn, and check leakdown with a tester. O to 5% leakage would be okay and no damage to the top end and no reason to remove the heads. Pull the pan off the bottom and look around, you may even want to look at the main and rod bearings, and perhaps the pump. If you see no damage, slap it back together and go drive it. If the bearings show light wear, you may want to spring for new bearings, just to make it fresh. But if it was mine I wouldnt pull the heads until I did a leakage test, even if I were intending to pull the heads, as it will show you how good the rings are.

 

And for you no doubt Id think you would do more damage attempting to do a comp/leak down test. What happens if the cams/crank timing has moved,which it more than likely has?? As you spin the engine over by hand to go to TDC for the leakdown test,you may nip/touch other un-damaged valves onto pistons and screw them ones up. It doesnt take much to bend a valve you know. You would also have to remove the cam covers to see which cyl in coming up to TDC ect.... Too much time,and may cause more damage. Just pull the engine apart

 

J.F.C... that is pretty bad. I saw an oil pump bearing that blew it's guts apart and looked similar -- but that belt, ohhhh that belt!

What will make your service expensive is *not* gaskets and seals. It'll be valves.

I'm also out of my league on this one, but Tom, could it have been grease failure in the bearing itself? Hill Engineering uses a significantly higher temp lube for this very reason on F355 bearings.

 

What about the metal he found in the oil?? The size of grains of sand? What could that be?? They are not big particles........because they are still sitting in the sump

 

I had to look up prices after my F119G-engine broke down. The most expensive part of the game were the pistons .. .. approx. 900 EUR each. Cost for 4 valves was "just" at 350 EUR per cylinder. Liners were 150 EUR or so.

Either way .. .. if all cylinders are afflicted a used engine or used spares will be the way to go.