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348 Cooling Fan Issue

Discussion in '348/355' started by jim94-348, Aug 22, 2010.

  1. jim94-348

    jim94-348 Formula Junior
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    Aug 19, 2010
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    I noticed that my 1994 348 is getting warm when I am stopped. I checked and the radiator cooling fan is not coming on. I jumped it out at the fuse box and it still didn't come on which makes me think it is the fan motor. Does anyone know how I can verify that it is the fan and not the temp switch? Should the fan come like the oil cooing fan does whether the temp switch is on or not when jumper out? Thanks for any help you can offer!!
     
  2. enginefxr

    enginefxr Formula 3

    Aug 20, 2007
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    Unplug the temp switch on the righthand radiator and jump the two terminals on the wire. The fans should run then, if not it's the fan motor.
    Just had a 348 with a bad switch at the shop. It's like a $25.00 part from Ricambi.
     
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  3. PAP 348

    PAP 348 Moderator
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    Thats what I would do. :D:D
     
  4. jim94-348

    jim94-348 Formula Junior
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    Turned out to be a bad cooling fan. I found a direct replacement from Spal. It is the Spal 12" Electric Puller Fan 1630CFM SPAL # 30102038. It bolted right up. I found it on Ebay for $105. Hope this helps someone else.
     
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  5. Ferrarium

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    #5 Ferrarium, Aug 11, 2019
    Last edited: Aug 11, 2019
  6. Ferrarium

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    Anyone know how to install a PWM Controller like Miro mentions?
     
  7. Ferrarium

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    #7 Ferrarium, Aug 13, 2019
    Last edited: Aug 13, 2019
    Ok I bought 2 of these fans but the 21 amp draw did not sit right at all. So I pulled my number from the fan and I callled spal and had them cross reference. The correct fan is 30102061. If you Google it it's the same with the same blades.

    Anyone want to guess the fans cfm and draw? 755 cfm with 7.2 A draw.

    Says it's 9 inches too not 12.

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  8. Ferrarium

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    Was looking at the oil cooler.
    The Radiator fans on my 90 TS still say VA01-AP6-36A.
    New part number SPAL #30102038 Puller Fan is the same as these Previous Part Number(s): 30100176 (VA01-AP6-36A), 30100849 (VA01-AP6/LD-36A)
     
  9. m.stojanovic

    m.stojanovic Formula 3
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    I installed PWM controllers for each of the rad fans and for the AC condenser fan. These controllers provide for "soft start" of the fans, i.e. they will ramp-up the fan from zero to full speed over some 3-5 sec. avoiding the big current spike on the fan start-up.

    The controllers are actually Toyota fan controllers (by Denso). I bought a few used ones (search for "toyota fan module" on Ebay, some are cheaper at $30-50; don't go for the cheap Chinese knock-offs). The controller looks like this:

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    This is actually just the power stage of the Toyota's variable fan speed control system which continuously varies the fan speed based on engine temperature. The output of the "clever stages" goes to the small pin in the middle of the top left connector. For just the soft start of the fan, you don't need to use this small pin. Just insert the controller in the wires to the fan as marked on the picture. Even though the controller is designed to run two fans on a Toyota ("out to fans 1 & 2"), because I do not know what the power (amps) of the Toyota fans is, and in order to have a more robust control of the 348's fans, I used one controller per fan using just one of the "out to fans" connectors.
     
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  10. Ferrarium

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    #10 Ferrarium, Aug 14, 2019 at 5:27 AM
    Last edited: Aug 14, 2019 at 5:41 AM
    Thanks so much! Did you use spade terminals to plug the module to power and to plug in the fans or did you find the right connector/plug to fit those terminals? if you know the connector let us know, not my strong suit there.

    Just curious how does one add a timer (about 5 sec) to one of the fan relays?
     
  11. m.stojanovic

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    When I bought the Toyota controllers they came with the original connectors as pigtails (the wires had been cut-off leaving about 2 in. lengths). The widths of the spades are not standard - the power in ones are 7.7 mm and the power out ones are 5 mm, as compared to the standard 9 and 6.3 mm. The standard female spades would probably also work provided that they are good quality (made of thicker material/plate) and that they plug on really tight.

    Timers are available on Ebay from China on an exposed PC board (for DIY-s). The incoming negative wire (from the thermo-switch) to the fan relay pin 85 or 86 (you would need to determine which one) would need to be disconnected from the relay and connected to the timer's negative side of the power supply to it to activate it when the thermo-switch switches on. The positive side of the power supply to the timer would be connected to ignition switched +12V. The timer's (small) relay would then be used to switch the fan relay pin 85 or 86 (depending on which one was found to have the negative wire from the thermo-switch and which was disconnected from the fan relay) to the ground to activate the fan relay (and the fan) with some delay.
     
  12. Ferrarium

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    To clarify I assume the power in to the controller is the existing fan connection. So this sits between the existing fan plug ends logically. No power to battery or anything?

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  13. m.stojanovic

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    You can imagine that you just cut the existing two wires to the fan and insert the controller with wires coming from the loom to go "into the controller" and the wires of the fan to the "out to fan" pins, with the polarity as shown. As the controller actually passes the positive fan wire straight through (from the "into" positive to the "out to fan" positive) and uses the negative fan wire to control the fan speed, you can also wire the controller by just splicing the "into" positive pin to the fan's positive wire (no need to cut this wire) and only cut the fan's negative wire. The negative wire of the fan's incoming loom is actually connected to the ground of the car. After cutting this wire, connect the incoming side of the wire to the "into" negative pin and connect the side of the wire that goes to the fan to the "out to fan" negative pin. There is no need to connect the "out to fan" positive pin as it is already connected to the fan's positive wire via the "into" positive pin.

    How it then works: the moment the fan relay switches +12V to the fan (and to the controller), the fan will not run immediately as it has no ground. The controller will then, over 3-5 sec. slowly increase the connection (via a powerful MOSFET transistor) of the fan's negative wire to the ground starting from no connection and slowly transition to full connection.
     
  14. Koenig1

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    Aug 25, 2016
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    Hmm, quite interesting on the fan controllers. Just a stupid question maybe, but, would any of the fan controllers( Mazda/Toyota etc) work as a 'stepped' amperage?
    ie: https://www.ebay.com/itm/1Pcs-For-07-13-Toyota-Corolla-Matrix-Mazda-5-CX-7-Cooling-Fan-Control-Module-New/312713156400?fits=Make%3AToyota&hash=item48cf281730:g:sJ8AAOSwPHJdOqFu
    pretty cheap!!!
    What I have learned with the Denso 105/110A alternator... I burned out my stator, and the local Alternator rebuild shop ordered in this 'special' stator. It was claimed to produce about 200amps, but tested out @ 187A or close....! I was also told that the rectifier I gave him was the best (RN10 =INR736/113mmsize-8m stud) as it had the best/largest Diodes. Now, there are threads about 2 different sized rectifiersRN10= 113mm/8m stud, and RN04= 103mm/... just be careful which size you have. More on the above stator. Did a search for the stator, no luck... called the shop with part#... he stated that the part# "1117-40 Stator" was actually a private internal # to the manufactuer???? and that if anyone wanted one they could call his shop and he would order one! Not the best help but here is the shop's name/tel#.
    Ascot Alternator
    2655 Blackwell Street unit 12
    Ottawa, Ontario, Canada K1B 4E4
    613-749-0392
    While doing all this searching I came across another Ebay outfit that makes a 200Amp for the Honda/Acura 31100py3013 (I believe one must change regulator to a 3post) but regs are cheap! I wrote one seller and he sent me a test report.... Anyway, about $180>$200. might be a future venture if mine craps out again.
     
  15. m.stojanovic

    m.stojanovic Formula 3
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  16. Ferrarium

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    That alternator is 4 post not all the alternators of a given model are the same some are 4 post some 3. We use 3 in the 348.

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  17. Koenig1

    Koenig1 Karting

    Aug 25, 2016
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    Should you have read my earlier post you would have understood....
    "While doing all this searching I came across another Ebay outfit that makes a 200Amp for the Honda/Acura 31100py3013 (I believe one must change regulator to a 3post) but regs are cheap! I wrote one seller and he sent me a test report.... Anyway, about $180>$200. might be a future venture if mine craps out again."
    Anyway... just stating another option. A 3post regulator(RN10/INR736) can be had for $25>$35. and changed out in minutes... same mounting points !
     
  18. Ferrarium

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    Ok then, I guess you told me. Good luck with it if it comes to it. It all seems so easy.

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  19. m.stojanovic

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    I have one of these but I wouldn't use ti. It is much smaller then the one I posted a picture of and it is designed to run only one fan (in a Mazda/Toyota) of unknown amps so it may not be up to the task running a powerful 348's fan. For more reliability (a good reserve in amps handling) I preferred to use the controller designed to run two (Toyota) fans which, in total, most probably draw higher amps than one 348 fan.
     
  20. Ferrarium

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    #21 Ferrarium, Aug 14, 2019 at 10:15 PM
    Last edited: Aug 14, 2019 at 10:33 PM
  21. m.stojanovic

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    I bought one of these but have yet to decide on which car to use it (probably not on the 348). It looks very good quality. This controller is used to continuously vary the fans' speed based on engine temperature and it eliminates the need for the fan relays, fuses and the thermo-switch. It will run the fans at the speed as needed to maintain the coolant temperature as set on the controller's temp setting screw.

    The one thing I don't quite like on this newer Derale version is the "pad" type temp sensor which is glued to the radiator (how long will the double stick tape hold?). The version I bought a couple of years ago has a "probe" type temp sensor which, with a suitable adaptor, could be screwed into the rad in place of the thermo-switch.

    Another thing to consider is that the Derale controller has to be connected directly to the battery, i.e. it is always under power. This means that, after the engine switch off, it will continue running the fans until the rad temperature is brought sufficiently down. This is not a bad thing (reducing heat soak) but it will drain the battery somewhat (and totally drain it if something goes wrong with the controller). I would prefer to wire it with the supply from the battery positive going through an additional powerful relay (say about 100 amps) to the +12V to the controller. This additional relay would be wired to come on with the ignition "on". In this way, the rad fans would be switched off when the engine is switched off.
     
  22. Ferrarium

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    Ahh makes sense, I noticed it wanted battery wired even the (-). They also have the probe for the radiator btw and they also have a 3/8 npt threaded probe sole seperatly that you can screw into a manifold (lots of them out there) like the picture. But the battery draw is not optimal we already have mad mice, which I like. Really reminds me of my late 80's cars. Wife and I are going to pick and pull yards to find some controllers from Solaras/Camrys.
     
  23. Ferrarium

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  24. m.stojanovic

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