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458 458 Brake pads

Discussion in '458 Italia/488/F8' started by Eds458, Oct 15, 2020 at 9:15 PM.

  1. Eds458

    Eds458 Rookie

    Jan 24, 2020
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    I’m interested in something other then stock brake pads. What is everyone’s experience with pagid RSC1 on factory ceramic rotors?


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  3. PhilNotHill

    PhilNotHill Two Time F1 World Champ
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    I have no idea. Hardly ever use the brakes.

    The accelerator is my cup of tea 90% of the time. But when one needs brakes, one needs brakes. I get it.
     
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  4. ferrarifam

    ferrarifam Karting
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    My dealer told me of the record that the brake pads and carbon ceramics on a ZR1 (not sure the year though) was the same as the 458. Anyone hear the same thing? I am going to see if I can get more clarification as that sounds out of the ordinary to me.
     
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  5. RayJohns

    RayJohns F1 Veteran
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    You might want to check this link out:

    https://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/threads/pagid-rsc1-for-scuderia-ccm.401739/

    When I was thinking about running something other than stock pads on my 458, I contacted Brembo. They said the pads are designed to work with the rotors. I couldn't get a lot of information out of them, but the basic idea was "it's not a good idea".

    For a street car, I would stick to stock. If you are going to track it, you might see if the 458 challenge cars use anything other than OEM pads.

    Ray
     
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  6. Il Co-Pilota

    Il Co-Pilota F1 Rookie
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    Get the Pagid RSC2. Great pad and very comfy. Much better wear than OE and RSC1. Did not see much of a wear and temp difference compared to OE/RSC1. Of course if you never track, RSC1 is a nice little upgrade from OE, but the difference is not very big. Currently run a car with RSL1 and one with RSC2. The latter is a nice pad that works for both street and track, and still don't eat your rotors. It is also worth noting that the Ferrari brake disc wear algorithm will have you replace discs way before they are worn, so even if the RSC2 is slightly more abrasive, it is not in my experience something that matters much.

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  8. Il Co-Pilota

    Il Co-Pilota F1 Rookie
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    Specifically developed for the discs... That rep needs a swift kick to the bullocks..Total *********.

    You know what is funny about that? The pad material Brembo use is developed and supplied by Pagid and Textar. That is such BS it is not even funny what that Brembo rep told you. OE fronts are Textar 4300 compound which was developed by Pagid for Textar and is essentially a cheaper RSC1, and OE rears are straight up RSC1 compound. It is just a CCM rotor and RSC1 and RSC2 compounds are developed for exactly that. Brembo don't develop or make a the pad compounds, they just get it in slabs. Cut it and stick it to their backing plates. What is even more funny is the fact that Brembo uses a pad material fixing method that does not allow for full pad wear. The brembo pads can only be worn to 3mm after which they damage the disc, whereas the Pagid can be worn down fully. So not only is the Pagids better and cheaper, they also allow a few mm more wear. It should be said that in track applications it is advised to not run pads below 3mm as the pad loses its property as a heat shield, but on the street it is not an issue.



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  9. Eds458

    Eds458 Rookie

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    Thanks everyone for your responses. I’m going to try out the RSC1 pads. Hopefully all goes well with the rotors.


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  10. mdrums

    mdrums Formula Junior

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    #8 mdrums, Oct 16, 2020 at 6:30 PM
    Last edited: Oct 16, 2020 at 6:35 PM
    Challenge cars all use steel rotors...so the pad selection is different and changes from track to track and race lengths. The carbon ceramic rotors Ferrari uses are the exact same as Corvette...both by Brembo. The Carbon Ceramic rotors used by Porsche Lambo are also by a Brembo but a different make up that is actually much longer wearing due to another outer layer of ceramic material. Here is some interesting info on the differences of these 2 rotors
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  11. action-ant

    action-ant Karting

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    The corvette front rotors are slightly smaller in diameter, and the corvette rear rotors are much larger, right? Anyone know of a car that has the same size rear rotor and thickness as the 458?
     
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  13. Il Co-Pilota

    Il Co-Pilota F1 Rookie
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    #10 Il Co-Pilota, Oct 17, 2020 at 10:36 AM
    Last edited: Oct 17, 2020 at 10:45 AM
    This is incorrect. The front rotors are 398mm x 36mm and the rears are 360mm x 32mm. This is the most common rotor size, and is not only used on all DCT Ferraris, but also the C6, C7 and C8 Corvettes with ccm rotors.

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  14. Il Co-Pilota

    Il Co-Pilota F1 Rookie
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    Challenge cars all come with the same type of CCM rotors as found on the street cars. They are just a bit larger. No Challenge car has come with steel rotors in a long time. Some switch to steel to save a bit, but the fastest cars run a ceramic. Some run the old school Brembo CCM and some run a modern CCST disc. Aside from the standard Brembo race pad which is basically Textars answer to an RSL29, the top pad right now is the RSL1.

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  15. Eds458

    Eds458 Rookie

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    I ordered the RSC1 pads for the 458 and noticed it’s the same part #’s for the C7 Z06 which I used to track. Are you saying the rotors are interchangeable? If so that would be a cheaper alternative to factory rotors.

    Ed


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  16. Il Co-Pilota

    Il Co-Pilota F1 Rookie
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    They are not interchangeable due to the fact that they don't share offset, hub bore and. PCD. But if you want to run non-OE discs and do it cheaper, why not get the Surface Transforms CCST discs?

    Aside from being priced similar to OE Corvette discs to the best of my knowledge, it is also a disc with many other benefits over the old school CCM discs.
    They last a lot longer, can be resurfaced for even less money than a new steel rotor, run a lot cooler which saves pads.and overall perform better with much better feel and modulation.

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  17. Eds458

    Eds458 Rookie

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    I was thinking more of just the disc itself being interchangeable using factory hats.

    Ed


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  18. Il Co-Pilota

    Il Co-Pilota F1 Rookie
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    It can work if the hat is flushmounted to the Corvette disc, but it might not be. An example of this is the Cali vs. 458. They share rears but not fronts. A 458 hat is 13mm thick and sits flush on the disc. A Cali front disc has a really thick hat, which is sunk a few mm into the disc. So if you mounted a 458 hat to a Cali rotor, you'd end up with an offset of 9mm instead of 13mm. I don't know if Corvette discs are flush or countersunk so it would be a gamble. But why not CCST discs if they are priced like Corvette CCM discs?

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  19. MalibuGuy

    MalibuGuy F1 Rookie

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    Just checked my brakes. My 458 has 128,000 miles, and is on its second set of OE front pads.
    I need new rear pads as the pad thickness is about the same as the backing plate thickness. I think I am close to needing new front pads and perhaps new front CCM rotors too.

    I may go OE or Pagid for the pads and will have the mechanic weigh the front rotors to see if they need replacing.
     
  20. Il Co-Pilota

    Il Co-Pilota F1 Rookie
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    I apologize if this is a bit forward, but that whole weight thing is just a really bad way of doing it. I don't know whether it originated from before Ferrari started their algorithm scam, or what, but the proper way of knowing is simply by looks and touch. Is it dull and rough, then the friction surface is gone and the disc is done. Is it nice and smooth, performs as should while running quiet, then it is not worn. It is nothing special, it is not science or black woodoo - it is just a ceramic brake disc. How on earth did you get that many miles on OE pads? I can wear don a set in less than a month on the road and less than two days when on track.

    Anyway, get the Pagid RSC1 pads. Cheaper and slightly better.

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  21. MalibuGuy

    MalibuGuy F1 Rookie

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    The surface of the rotors are smooth and they still look shiny.
    I probably need rear pads for now. Since I bring the car to my authorized Ferrari service center, they will recommend OE pads.
    Thanks for the info and advice about Pagid
    I will see if the service center will allow Pagid
     
  22. Il Co-Pilota

    Il Co-Pilota F1 Rookie
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    In that case, your rotors are fine.

    If you can perform the most basic tasks on a car, you can do the pads yourself. Only takes a moment. Knock out the two pins, remove the spring, slide out the pads after pushing them back. Refit the wear indicators into the new pads and reinsert pads. Put on the spring, knock the pins back into place and Bob's your uncle. Less than 10 mins per wheel.

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  23. mdrums

    mdrums Formula Junior

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    Just saw the Ferrari Challenge race at Sebring....steel rotors.
     
  24. Il Co-Pilota

    Il Co-Pilota F1 Rookie
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    Like I said many switch to save money. But a 458, 488 and 488 Evo comes from the factory with Brembo CCM discs. A good guess is that the car you saw either ran Gitodisc or AP Racing discs. I take it that it was one of the above? Obviously if its an old car like a 360 or 430, that's a different story. But as standard the newer cars are fitted with CCM rotors.

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  25. mdrums

    mdrums Formula Junior

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    Most looked like Ap J Hook or slotted rotors. I have tried to find the Ferrari Challenge Rule book to see what the rules are for brakes and what you can and can not change on the cars. My local Ferrari deal also has 3 Challenge cars on the showroom floor...2 458 and 1 488....all with steel rotors. I will get a closer look this Thursday when I am there to see what they are running or were running.
     
  26. mdrums

    mdrums Formula Junior

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    Found the 488 Challenge rule book...nothing is said about the brakes in it...odd...no spec on rotors or pads that these cars must use. They do spec what fluids must be used. Interesting...

    https://www.imsa.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/32/2020/02/27/Ferrari-Challenge-NA-2020-Regulations-compressed.pdf
     
  27. mdrums

    mdrums Formula Junior

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  28. MalibuGuy

    MalibuGuy F1 Rookie

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