Air Pump injection system

Discussion in '206/246' started by npwmd2, Apr 30, 2017.

  1. dinogts

    dinogts Formula 3
    Rossa Subscribed Owner

    Feb 15, 2005
    2,208
    Hanging with Thor
    I have the parts. But, as you pointed out in post #20 above, "We have a specific rule about that in judging. The emission control only needs to look operable," so there isn't much of a point in even trying to make it operable.
     
  2. npwmd2

    npwmd2 Karting

    Mar 31, 2015
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    Neal
    I was not even thinking of judging a US spec dino when I posted. But now that we went there; what about the electronic ignition devices, antihop and microswitch that are no longer used?
     
  3. Rifledriver

    Rifledriver Two Time F1 World Champ

    Apr 29, 2004
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    What do you mean they are no longer used? Everything needs to be there. Everything needs to look functional. The rules are publically posted. Reading them is a really good place to start.
     
  4. npwmd2

    npwmd2 Karting

    Mar 31, 2015
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    Neal
    The devices I have but no longer functional. BTW what are they for and why does the car function without them?
     
  5. Rifledriver

    Rifledriver Two Time F1 World Champ

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    There are really 2 ways to go.
    Keep the car original or
    Modify it as you please.

    The market is unambiguous in its preference, complete original cars are far more valuable in the market place. We have been substituting parts and camouflaging things for a long time. I can't begin to tell you how many Ferrari and Maserati engines have Carrillo rods in them. No one cares because they are better and more reliable and no one can see them. Countless Marelli ignition boxes have been hollowed out and had modern electronic ignitions hidden inside. The point is, put it all in, hook it up, make it look pretty and make the car run and drive correctly and no one will care if all that stuff works.
     
  6. npwmd2

    npwmd2 Karting

    Mar 31, 2015
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    Neal
    Its only a car, AGREED!
     
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  8. Dino Club Germany

    Dino Club Germany Formula Junior

    Nov 10, 2008
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    N. Schumacher
    I put it on eBay motors, let´s see
     
  9. kjw9028

    kjw9028 Karting
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    Jan 3, 2010
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    Sylvania,Oh-Naples,F
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    Ken Wise
    The pump on my 72 GTS makes a rattling noise at idle. I have been told the engine needs to come out to repair/replace it. Is that true? If it's the heat shield, like someone else mentioned earlier in this post, how troublesome is that to repair? Thanks.
     
  10. Rifledriver

    Rifledriver Two Time F1 World Champ

    Apr 29, 2004
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    No, the motor does not need to be removed. If it is the air pump unplug the clutch and the noise will go away.
     
  11. kjw9028

    kjw9028 Karting
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    Jan 3, 2010
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    Ken Wise
    Can you send a picture/diagram of that? Makes kind of a grinding/rattling noise. Mostly hear it at idle. Does not affect how the car runs. Thanks for the feedback!

    Ken
     
  12. Rifledriver

    Rifledriver Two Time F1 World Champ

    Apr 29, 2004
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    There's multiple pictures here.

    The white wire.......unplug it.
     
  13. kjw9028

    kjw9028 Karting
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    Ken Wise
    Got it, Thanks.
     
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  15. kjw9028

    kjw9028 Karting
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    Ken Wise
    Just got down to Florida were this particular car is. Can I access the air pump to disconnect the white wire/plug from the engine compartment or underneath the car? Does anything have to be disassembled? Thanks.
     
  16. DinoLasse

    DinoLasse Formula Junior
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    It's easier than that. You can access the air pump wiring from inside the rear trunk.

    Remove the cover over the Dinoplex/ignition coils area. Next to the Dinoplex you will find two electronic modules. The larger one of them is the Air Pump Control module. Simply remove the 12V feed wire (I'm fairly sure it is red) from this module and put an insulating sleeve on it. That will disable the air pump and your rattling noise will stop.
     
  17. kjw9028

    kjw9028 Karting
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    Thats good news, Thanks! While solving my noise problem, will disabling the pump affect how the car runs or create any other problems? Thanks again.
     
  18. DinoLasse

    DinoLasse Formula Junior
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    No, not at all. The idle rpm may need to be adjusted slightly, that's all. But perhaps not even that.

    When I had my US Dino I ran it with the air pump disabled in that manner most of the time. Once or twice a year I would briefly re-connect the wire, just to exercise the pump and make sure it would not seize up. Never had any problems. With the air pump activated, the idle rpm would increase slightly and the occasional puffing from the exhaust could be heard. My air pump was in good condition, so the mechanical noise was minimal. Drivability was not affected and the performance loss with the air pump was negligible. As you probably know, it gets disconnected over 4200 rpm anyway. Still, I found it annoying. In your case, I am sure you will be happy to get rid of the rattling noise.
     
  19. kjw9028

    kjw9028 Karting
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    Finally getting to this project. If these are the modules mentioned, it looks to me like they have already been disconnected? I don't see any wires lying around, (wondering where they are at?), would think the smog/air pump would not be a factor. However, Craig at Studio 47 and another mechanic have previously said my noise is coming from the air pump. As usual, thoughts appreciated. Thanks.

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  20. DinoLasse

    DinoLasse Formula Junior
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    Ouch!
    Somebody has rewired the circuit, taken out the entire Air pump control circuit, the Anti-hop module AND the Dinoplex! The works!

    Yes, the module I was talking about is the green module in the lower part of the photo. That is the rpm sensing module that is supposed to control the air pump clutch.

    If the air pump is still running - and I don’t doubt what the mechanics are saying - it means that it has been wired to be activated all the time. In that case, some of the wires seen in the back of the picture are in probably joined together with jumper connectors. To disable the air pump, you need to figure out which wire is going to the air pump clutch and then disconnect it. It should not be too hard to figure out.

    Wiring the air pump that way (always on) would be totally irresponsible, since it would risk damaging the air pump at high rpm’s. I hope that it is not done that way, but if it is, just disconnect it immediately.
     
  21. yunita

    yunita Rookie

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    Loving this thread! sub'd[​IMG]
     
  22. hichamaziz

    hichamaziz Rookie

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    hicham aziz
    thank you all members for help
     
  23. kjw9028

    kjw9028 Karting
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    Finally got the car to my mechanic down here in SW Florida. He feels the air pump has been disabled. Since last posting, the charging system is not working. Trying to determine if alternator or some other issue. Will solve noise problem previously mentioned at the same time. Since my car appears to have
    own unique wiring setup, I thought I'd post a couple of the pics my mechanic has sent for thoughts. Any idea what the 2 wires are for? He thought the fuse box pictured could have been bypassed also, could that be true? If not, could it have been functional in this condition? Always fun trying to figure these old cars out. Thanks.

    Ken
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  24. Dino Club Germany

    Dino Club Germany Formula Junior

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    If I remember right this fuse box is not yet existing on L and M Series 246. It was implemented to avoid a fire in the car due to a short cut in the wiring harness.
    It should connect the generator and the Amps gauge?
     
  25. DinoLasse

    DinoLasse Formula Junior
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    The two fuses are normally connecting the alternator to the rest of the electrical system.

    The heavy red wire is the main output from the alternator. It goes through the 60 amp fuse, then up through the ammeter and then to the battery. This fuse is a known problem source (if the contacts get oxidized), and has apparently been bypassed in your car. There is probably a new wire connecting the alternator directly to the ammeter and battery now.

    The thinner white wire connects the voltage regulator to the alternator field winding. It regulates the alternator output voltage by adjusting the the field current. It is necessary for correct operation, but it may also have been bypassed with a direct wire without the fuse.

    You can see these wires and the two fuses in your wiring diagram. My own file is too large to post here, but the alternator is number 44 on the right side of the diagram, with the fuse block number 75 next to it.

    The reason for the fuse is, as Nicolai said, to prevent electrical fire in case of a short circuit in the alternator. Before approx 1980, most alternators did not contain a fusible link to protect against such failure. That is why Ferrari added the 60 amp fuse.
    If the person who bypassed the fuse knew what he was doing, he would have added a fusible link, and you would be OK. Better ask the mechanic if he sees a fusible link somewhere. Otherwise ask him to install one.

    If it was my car, I would just reinstall the factory fuse block and fuses. They are not all that troublesome. I never had a problem with them in my US Dino.

    Hope that helps.
    Lars
     
  26. kjw9028

    kjw9028 Karting
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    Lars,

    Great info-Thanks. Interestingly enough, I just got the car back today and it runs terrifically. The alternator wires pictured had somehow become loose, when reattached, everything worked as it should. The electrical configuration of this car is confusing, and I will take your advice to heart to be sure there is some type of fuse protection if its not there now. As he did not have to remove the alternator, he did not have time to address the rattling/noise issue which is most prevalent at idle. I had been told it was the air pump, but electrically it has been disabled. I'm wondering if the alternator was removed, could the gear be removed which slides into the air pump assembly gear to stop the shaft from rotating? Can the air pump be removed without removing the engine? I know its been discussed, but is there any easy way to remove the alternator? My car is an earlier 72 GTS, always appreciate the help and advice!
     
  27. DinoLasse

    DinoLasse Formula Junior
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    OK, makes more sense now. The wires had been removed for the the pictures only. That means you do have fuse protection now.

    The heat damage to the fuse holder shown in the picture is textbook example of what happens when you get bad contact or oxidation at that connection. Always good to check that part of the wiring in a Dino. Presumably, the mechanic has made the connections clean and tight, so you should be OK now.

    The alternator itself certainly can be removed with the engine in place, but it involves several hours of not very enjoyable work.

    Removing the entire air pump assembly with the long housing is more difficult but should still be possible with engine in place, according to some threads in this forum. It would probably involve removing the right side fuel tank and forward exhaust header, among other things.
    Some useful information here:
    https://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/threads/dino-forward-exhaust-header-removal.511147/#post-144449713
     

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