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ALERT! Body and chassis 250LM from Italy with a pending lawsuit in court offered for sale

Discussion in 'Vintage (thru 365 GTC4)' started by passioncar, Feb 7, 2019.

  1. passioncar

    passioncar Rookie

    Aug 25, 2010
    34
    Full Name:
    fulvio visioli
    FYI a body with its chassis of a 250LM with a pending lawsuit in the Vercelli Court (Italy ) has been offered for sale !
    dont' purchase it! the Ferrari 250LM chassis 5899 is involved on a lawsuit in - Vercelli Court
    n. 2597/2017 RGNR Court of Vercelli, - the guy who sold the car is accused of the crime referred to in art. 646 p.p. for having unduly appropriated the body of this Ferrari 250 Le Mans .
    Be careful ! buying the aforementioned good and / or from collaborating in its sale, as this could supplement other types of crime. If someone get in touch with this car offered for sale , please get in touch with the Vercelli Court - through the Police.
     
  2. turbo-joe

    turbo-joe F1 Veteran
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    Apr 6, 2008
    5,175
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    romano schwabel
    thank you for this info fulvio

    when I see your age you have been a former police officer or otherwise involved with the government/court that you write this great info here or once have been involved with this 250 LM?
     
  3. passioncar

    passioncar Rookie

    Aug 25, 2010
    34
    Full Name:
    fulvio visioli
    Thank you for your message - I am the owner of the body and chassis 250LM - My Lawyer has suggested to me to get the community informed about the facts linked to my 250LM chassis and body,
    Thanks. Fulvio
     
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  4. miurasv

    miurasv F1 Veteran

    Nov 19, 2008
    6,757
    Cardiff, UK
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    Steven Robertson
    Please can you clarify which 250LM body and chassis it is that you own. Thank you.
     
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  5. passioncar

    passioncar Rookie

    Aug 25, 2010
    34
    Full Name:
    fulvio visioli
    The 250LM body and chassis I own is the 5899
    I purchased it more than 20years ago! I have all the docs of 250 LM body and chassis -
    Actually ,there is a open a lawsuit in - Vercelli Court
    n. 2597/2017 RGNR Court of Vercelli, - the guy who sold the car is accused of the crime referred to in art. 646 p.p. for having unduly appropriated the body of this Ferrari 250 Le Mans .
    For more infos dont' hesitate and write me.

     
  6. miurasv

    miurasv F1 Veteran

    Nov 19, 2008
    6,757
    Cardiff, UK
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    Steven Robertson
    I'm sorry I'm a bit confused. There is someone that claims he has 5899, you own 5899 and there is the Ferrari Classiche Certified 5899 owned by Remo Ferri as in the video below?


     
  7. miurasv

    miurasv F1 Veteran

    Nov 19, 2008
    6,757
    Cardiff, UK
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    Steven Robertson
    Please see link here: http://www.ferrari-register.nl/ferrari/home/stradali-classici/250-gt/lm/5899?fbclid=IwAR38pROR2rLrbC4tT4jc46FfLGVfCAvD3PSXtfHOSwh48RKzcK3gZk26x8o

    Is this what you have along with the original destroyed 250 LM body?

    Please could you post pictures of the 5899 chassis stamping and tag. Thank you in advance.
     
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  8. sixcarbs

    sixcarbs F1 Veteran
    Rossa Subscribed

    Dec 19, 2004
    5,879
    SF
    I'm confused.
     
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  9. 19633500GT

    19633500GT F1 Rookie
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    Nov 9, 2010
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    Ken S
    I'm confused Fulvio didn't use his other S/N. I thought we couldn't have two?
     
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  10. ylshih

    ylshih Global Moderator
    Global Moderator Owner Advising Moderator Honorary

    Mar 21, 2004
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    Yin
    #11 ylshih, Feb 8, 2019
    Last edited: Feb 8, 2019
    passioncar has an older account from 2016 (fulvioMC) and an even older one from 2010 (fulvio Visioli). Accounts merged as only one account is allowed per user on this site.
     
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  11. passioncar

    passioncar Rookie

    Aug 25, 2010
    34
    Full Name:
    fulvio visioli
    ... the important message alert IS - Actually ,there is a open a lawsuit in - Vercelli Court as regards this chassis and body 250LM - the Lawsuit is numbered n. 2597/2017 RGNR Court of Vercelli, ... the guy , a mechanic who sold the car is accused of the crime referred to in art. 646 p.p. for having unduly appropriated the body and chassis Ferrari 250 Le Mans of my property !
    so I m not discussing about chassis numbers BUT about the crime done by the mechanic who unduly appropriated the body and chassis 250LM and he sold them!

    If someone buy this 250LM body and chassis can get involved into the actual Lawsuit of the Court ! it is not nice experience!!
    Thanks for your understanding
    Fulvio
     
  12. wbaeumer

    wbaeumer F1 Veteran
    Consultant

    Mar 4, 2005
    7,658
    Sorry Fulvio - but you did NOT answer to the important questions here!
     
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  13. lgs

    lgs Formula Junior

    Mar 26, 2006
    467
    https://ricerca.repubblica.it/repubblica/archivio/repubblica/1993/07/08/la-truffa-delle-false-ferrari-quelle.html:

    LA TRUFFA DELLE FALSE FERRARI ' QUELLE ROSSE NON SONO VERE'

    ... Donatella Santini, dalla Criminalpol: "Abbiamo smascherato il più grande giro di contraffazione di auto Ferrari degli ultimi anni. Una truffa per decine di miliardi e che ha ramificazioni all' estero e oltreoceano".

    ... accusato di contraffazione di prodotti con brevetto industriale, ma che, se le indagini registreranno altri sviluppi, rischia l' imputazione per "frode all' economia nazionale", è Fulvio Visioli, 47 anni, di Cremona ex concessionario della stessa Ferrari ...
     
  14. passioncar

    passioncar Rookie

    Aug 25, 2010
    34
    Full Name:
    fulvio visioli
    Hi
    THE LEGAL QUESTION HAS BEEN CLOSED MANY YEARS AGO ---- I WON AND THE FERRARI GAVE ME BACK ALL THE CARS!
    YOU SHOULD GET INFORMED ABOUT IT I HAVE PLACED SO MANY MANY POST ABOUT IT!
     
  15. passioncar

    passioncar Rookie

    Aug 25, 2010
    34
    Full Name:
    fulvio visioli
    THEN AS REGARDS THE 250LM 5899 - HERE IS THE FERRARI LETTER I RECEIVED YEARS AGO IN 1987 ...NOT IN 2002 OR 2015????????
    THE LETTER SAYS AS REGARDS THE ATHRIZATION TO RESTORE THE CAR " LE CONFERMIAMO IL NS ACCORDO A PROCEDERE " ( WE GIVE YOU THE ATHORIZATION TO START" )
    READ CAREFULLY ... SO WHAT DO YOU SUGGEST TO ME?

    Image Unavailable, Please Login
     
  16. wbaeumer

    wbaeumer F1 Veteran
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    Mar 4, 2005
    7,658
    Well, on this forum many things Ferrari has been discussed over many years! I could not follow all of them nor do I recall every detail.
    And now....cool down!
     
  17. Smiles

    Smiles Moderator
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    Nov 20, 2003
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    Matt F
    Is this what you (Fulvio) started with in 1987? Or what did you start with to get the letter from Ferrari?

    And, by comparison, what do you have now?

    I’d love to see the chassis tag also.

    Matt
     
  18. lgs

    lgs Formula Junior

    Mar 26, 2006
    467
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
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    1989: Read carefully!
     
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  19. ylshih

    ylshih Global Moderator
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    Mar 21, 2004
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    #21 ylshih, Feb 14, 2019
    Last edited: Feb 14, 2019
    I suggest you stop using all capital letters in your posts. It's annoying.
     
    showme1946 and readplays like this.
  20. miurasv

    miurasv F1 Veteran

    Nov 19, 2008
    6,757
    Cardiff, UK
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    Steven Robertson
  21. sixcarbs

    sixcarbs F1 Veteran
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    Dec 19, 2004
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    SF
    Smiles likes this.
  22. Timmmmmmmmmmy

    Timmmmmmmmmmy Formula 3

    Apr 5, 2010
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    NZ
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    Timothy Russell
    IIRC #5899 was raced, shortened, fitted with a Porssche 906 body and more to create the Ilert LM-P for its owner, Hans Ilert, it eventually passed through the British trade as a restoration project and eventually landed with Eric Stewart who was the lead singer of British hit band 10cc, they did the hit song "I am Not in Love", it was restored by Vic Norman, possibly with a new chassis and/or bodywork. So that bit is well established, what became of the chassis and or whatever remained of the original bodywork, nobody cared in 1981 when these would have been rare, unknown and any example much desired. Fast forward to today and those remains might be what Sig. Visioli claims to own OR he might have just made it all himself at some point since '81.
     
  23. Picchu88

    Picchu88 Rookie

    Aug 18, 2014
    47
    London
    Full Name:
    Andrea Greco
    Hi Steven,

    here a translation of all the letters here posted:

    Post #16:

    Dear Mr. Visioli,

    in regard to your request to get the authorisation to repair the chassis of the car in question [#05899], that has been purchased by you, we confirm our agreement to proceed. We send a copy of this letter to the workshop owned by Mr. Vaccari William, to whom you commissioned the repair work.


    Post #20:

    # 1 Object: Repair of Ferrari chassis repair

    From our phone call on the 22nd we learnt that your workshop was about to rebuild a 250LM chassis that was missing the plate with the chassis number. You have declared that the elements in your possession should belong to 250LM #05899 for which the repair was authorised by us with the letter dated October 20th, 1987 addressed to the owner of the car Mr. Visioli and to you cc'ed. It is obvious that in order to guarantee the originality of the chassis in question, the plate bearing the chassis number must be among the parts to be repaired. During his visit on the 26th of the current month, our technician confirmed that this was not the case [the chassis number plate was not present], hence the car must be considered a "reconstruction" from the sole central elements of a chassis missing the front and rear sections as well as missing the chassis number. Since the essential elements for the identification and for the work to be marked as a "repair" are missing, the previous authorisation must be considered invalid. This stands until other elements are shown to verify the originality of the car.

    # 2 Object: Repair of Ferrari 250LM chassis number #05899

    Dear Mr. Visioli,

    following your renewed phone requests to our Mr. Delle Donne about the repair of the car in question, we would like to stress that we cannot give our authorisation for you to proceed. As specified in the former letter, addressed to the Company TRE-Vi owned by Vaccari William, with you cc'ed, the elements required for the identification of this car are not available. Following the letter, our own Mr. Delle Donne visited your centre without obtaining the required elements. Furthermore, all the missing components (gearbox, engine, suspensions, and so on) were not visible during the visit, and the photographic documentation of the different details that you provided in that occasion is not sufficient to support the statement that the car is original. We also stress that this chassis number will be registered as destroyed in our registry.
     

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