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CRAZY book

Discussion in 'Other Off Topic Forum' started by Challenge, Jan 14, 2004.

  1. Challenge

    Challenge Formula 3

    Sep 27, 2002
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    I'm about halfway through a book that is absolutely remarkable, especially if it's true. It's called "...and the truth shall set you free" by David Ickes. It may be total BS, but I doubt it.

    A quick, oversimplified summary: the entire world is basically controlled by a select few called the Global Elite. These people disseminate misinformation to the public and pass the actual knowledge on via a select group of organizations, including secret societies. (Don't laugh just yet...he substantiates most of this stuff with quotes from presidents, companies, Congressional records, etc.) Their sole purpose control, with their ultimate goal of a world government, a world army, and a world currency. He states that the UN and the EU are merely stepping stones to achieving this. (Remember how much belly-aching there was because the US didn't get "international approval" from the UN prior to invading Iraq?)

    He goes on to say that all major world conflicts were completely planned well before they occurred and he states some very chilling evidence who/how/why. I never knew that all the high-ranking officers just happed to be out at sea when Pearl Harbor was attacked.

    This book is deep. The secret society part alone is fascinating, if not down right scary. Freemasonry plays a big role in how the world works (New York was named after the York Rite of Freemasonry and the pyramid/eye on the back of your dollar bills represents the cult of the All-Seeing-Eye.)

    Read it and tell me what you think.
     
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  3. 134282

    134282 Four Time F1 World Champ
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    Hey, Challenge, there are a few conspiracy theorists here... Most will write this off as crap, though... i have a few books at home regarding very similar material... i never heard of your book, although i'd like to check it out... PM me any time to chat about this stuff...

    Oh, by the way... It IS real.
     
  4. MarkPDX

    MarkPDX F1 World Champ
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    Woo Hoo!!! It's been a while since the last conspiracy theory thread. In honor of the occasion I'm changing my avatar to reflect my membership in the cult of the All Seeing Shnozz
     
  5. Challenge

    Challenge Formula 3

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    I thought as much. It's good to know everyone's got an open mind. I probably shouldn't have posted this.
     
  6. 134282

    134282 Four Time F1 World Champ
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    No, this is good, actually... Another thread for all the uptight wankers to get all bent of shape and flex their self-righteous opinions... As far as Mark goes... Well, he's just busting your chops... :D
     
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  8. MarkPDX

    MarkPDX F1 World Champ
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    If everything is under the control of reptilain shapeshifter aliens then why do they let him write this book? If they can whack Princess Di then how hard would it be to make an author disappear?

    Be careful Carbon, they are watching. They will wait until you are in a vulnerable position. :D :D :D
     
  9. racedecknc

    racedecknc Karting

    Nov 24, 2003
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    I'll add another layer of tin foil to my hat.

    ;)
     
  10. thecarreaper

    thecarreaper F1 World Champ
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    threads like this are cool in a way,... i guess. but from what i have heard and from bieng in aerospace for several years....... SO WHAT? knowledge is power if you can use it.i have had to sign too many " NON- DISCLOSER " agreements to care anymore. if " THEY " ( whoever that is ) want you dead, or want to change something, what the hell is one person going to do to stop something so big??? the power of misdirection, misinformation and suggestion are clandestine tools. you dont even know that you have been " turned" to a certain choice. buy a ferrari, smile and enjoy the ride we call life. RESISTANCE IS FUTILE { lol}
     
  11. 62 250 GTO

    62 250 GTO F1 Veteran

    Jan 9, 2004
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    You guys are too funny!

    Ok, if everything is planned and it's for a master plan... then why did they make a Porsche 924??? How the hell does that fit into things!
     
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  13. amenasce

    amenasce Two Time F1 World Champ
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    LMAO !
     
  14. 62 250 GTO

    62 250 GTO F1 Veteran

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    If any of the 924 guys I know read that... I'm going off that bridge!
     
  15. Robin

    Robin F1 Rookie

    Nov 1, 2003
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    I dunno... I've always considered an open mind to be one that when faced with opposing arguments, weighs the merits of each with fact, evidence, and common sense, then forms an opinion based on these things. For some reason, it seems as though a majority of people (usually the straight jacket loonies who believe this kind of stuff) think that having an open mind means turning off your skepticism and ability to think critically so that you absorb ALL information as if it were the truth.

    The Art Bells and David Ickes of the world fall into the latter category. You can call into Bell's radio show and say that a pink midget alien from Uranus just built an interplanetary space station in your anus, and he'll believe it and cite it as evidence that the gov't is covering up alien visitation. In addition to shadow gov't conspiracy theories, Ickes also writes about numerology, UFOs, and whatnot, which should instantly make you question what kind of research he put into this book you're reading now. Just like with any news program, intelligence gathering, stock tip, etc... always consider the source.

    For a proper application of critical thinking and true open mindedness, check out John Kofod's thread in the general Ferrari section where he single handedly squashes years of myth about 355 valve guides. While most people accept what they hear and pass it along without thinking twice about the factual nature of the information or the source from which they heard it from, he had an open mind about whether or not the common ideas were correct and took it upon himself to investigate the issue *using proper sources*... I seriously doubt this Ickes guy has access to these 'shadow government' people who tell him all about what's going on. Mark makes an excellent point by indicating that by obtaining this information and writing a book about it, isn't he setting himself up for an "accident of unknown cause".... The fact that he was able to accomplish such a feat with no repercussions from these ubersecret gov't types has to make you wonder.

    As an aside, have you ever seen a conspiracy theory or UFO magazine? If so, have you seen the advertisements in them? Advertising agencies have THE most comprehensive marketing data on any given segment of the population... They conduct studies to find out who's reading a particular magazine or watch a particular tv show, then find out everything about them.. I helped get a few ads on air for a video production company I used to work for, and I was amazed by the data the advertising companies had. Therefore, does it come as any surprise that just about every advertisement in conspiracy magazines is directed at GULLIBLE people? Every page is littered with penis enlargement pills, sexual enhancement herbs, pheromone sprays that make women quiver for you, x-ray goggles, muscle making drugs, etc etc. They're almost all geared towards gullible men. Why? Because only gullible people believe this BS.

    I recommend www.csicop.org www.snopes.com www.skeptic.com and books by Michael Shermer "Why People Believe Weird Things" ... Carl Sagan "The Demon Haunted World: Science as a Candle in the Dark" ... James Randi "Flim Flam" etc etc...

    -R
     
  16. Gilles27

    Gilles27 F1 World Champ

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    "Who holds back the electric car? We do!"
    "Who makes Steve Guttenberg a star? We do!"

    I believe they're the Stone Cutters.
     
  17. Horsefly

    Horsefly F1 Veteran

    May 14, 2002
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    Art Bell and George Noory spend alot of their time discussing UFO incidents, particularly the 1947 Roswell crash. If you've ever seen the interview with Jessie Marcell, the Roswell airbase security officer, you might not be so skeptical about the whole thing. Rancher Mac Brazzel discovered the debris field near where the alien spacecraft exploded and reported the debris to Jessie Marcell at the airbase. Marcell accompanied Brazzel on a long trip out to the remote area of the ranch to see the field himself. In the interview, Marcell reported that the area was strewn for hundreds of yards with metallic debris which was extremely thin, yet it would not bend. Why would a well respected veteran army officer and family man give an interview 30 years after the fact describing a mysterious incident that the military itself LIED and DENIED for over FOURTY YEARS? The military denied that anything happened at Roswell until just a few years ago when the whole story finally started bubbling to the surface again thanks primarily to Art Bell. The Air Force held a press conference, and after FOURTY YEARS OF LYING AND SAYING THAT NOTHING HAD HAPPENED, they tossed up some idiotic excuse that back in 1947 the Air Force had been dropping crash test dummies by parachute and THAT is what everybody had seen back then.

    Oh please, don't make us laugh. For some REAL investigation into this most well known UFO incident, try reading Kevin Randall's book, "The Truth About the UFO Crash at Roswell". He put more REAL work into that book that the mainstream media has put into UFO research in 40 years.
     
  18. MarkPDX

    MarkPDX F1 World Champ
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  19. Robin

    Robin F1 Rookie

    Nov 1, 2003
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    This statement is so erroneous for so many reasons it makes my head hurt. There have been several books written about the subject from an objective, critical point of view that have absolutely shredded Randle and Schmitt's lies. Since you probably won't bother going to www.csicop.org and doing a search on "roswell" yourself, I'll just cut and paste a few things.

    Three of the main witnesses cited by R&S, what R&S said about them, and the truth:

    "Lydia Sleppy: Claims she was operating a teletype machine announcing the recovery of the flying disk when her teletype suddenly went dead and broadcast an ominous message from the FBI back to her ordering her to stop broadcasting the story in the interests of national security.

    Truth: A check by this author with all relevant FBI field offices and their headquarters turned up no evidence that the FBI sent any such message, nor did they have the monitoring equipment in place to do so. Furthermore, the type of teletype machine in use by Sleppy at the time would have required her to throw a "receiver" switch in order for her to receive an incoming transmission. There was no way that the FBI could have "interrupted" her as she claims.
    -----------------------------------------------------------------------
    Loretta Proctor: Neighbor of Mac Brazel, the rancher who originally discovered the "saucer" debris. She claims she tried to bend, burn, and break a piece of the material Brazel showed her but was unable to. Proctor's testimony is used by crashed-saucer buffs to buttress the argument that a spaceship made of unknown, exotic material crashed near Roswell.
    Truth: Loretta Proctor has changed her story several times. She has transformed herself from a "witness" who never saw any debris, to one who now tried to bend, break, and burn the "mysterious" material. She began changing her account after her husband, Floyd, who made it very clear in earlier interviews that they had never seen any material, passed away.
    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Sergeant Melvin E. Brown: Brown is touted as a "witness" who saw alien bodies by Roswell authors Friedman, Randle and Schmitt, and Michael Hesemann and Philip Mantle (Beyond Roswell).
    Truth: Melvin Brown cannot be considered a witness since he died in 1986 and was never interviewed by UFO researchers. Indeed, the only "proof" one has that Brown was a "witness" comes from his daughter, Beverly Bean, who first made the claim years after his death. No other member of Brown's family supports her claim. Furthermore, a check by this author of Brown's military file revealed that he was a cook who held no security clearance and never pulled guard duty. Also noted in the book are the blatant contradictions and changes in Beverly Bean's various accounts."

    "...the most important "star" witness to Roswell, Major Marcel, when first interviewed, could not even remember the year of the alleged UFO crash, let alone the month. Indeed, Marcel's own answer as to when this supposed "snapshot memory" event took place was simply "in the late forties"!"

    "Marcel's tendency to exaggerate was specifically noted in his military file by none other than the commander of the base at Roswell at that time..."

    "Marcel claimed that he personally flew the UFO wreckage to Carswell AFB. He could not have done so, for he was never a pilot. Despite this, Marcel claimed in numerous interviews with Friedman and former National Enquirer reporter Bob Pratt that he was not only a pilot but had managed to shoot down five enemy aircraft!"

    "Marcel claimed he had a bachelor's degree in physics and even named the universities he attended. However, when I checked with those institutions, I discovered that one of them he never attended, and he never finished his education at the other. Curiously, while Marcel blatantly lied to UFO researchers such as Friedman about his mythical educational background, he never dared make such false claims to the military. Indeed, in signed statements contained in Marcel's military file, he replies "none" when asked under oath if he had a college degree."

    There's piles and piles of information like this about Marcel, the other 'witnesses', the authors who write about this BS, etc. Yet the "open minded" people refuse to believe it. Nice open mind...anyway, more info: http://www.csicop.org/cgi-bin/search/search.cgi?q=roswell

    -R
     
  20. Horsefly

    Horsefly F1 Veteran

    May 14, 2002
    6,929
    ""Marcel claimed that he personally flew the UFO wreckage to Carswell AFB. He could not have done so, for he was never a pilot. Despite this, Marcel claimed in numerous interviews with Friedman and former National Enquirer reporter Bob Pratt that he was not only a pilot but had managed to shoot down five enemy aircraft!"

    Will you please tell me in what publication or interview that Marcel made this claim? I have never read ANYWHERE that Marcel claimed to be a pilot. He was always sited as being the airbase security officer.

    Why is it that we are suppose to believe that Marcel was a liar, yet we are suppose to believe some obscure website as the ultimate oracle of truth???

    I don't see anything in your posting debating the statements of Mac Brazzel? If the event never happened, then I guess he made the whole incident up? Why would a rancher decide to make up a story about crashed aliens, when the fact of the matter is that he did not report any alien spacecraft, he merely reported what he thought was debris from a standard aircraft wreckage?

    ""Marcel claimed that he personally flew the UFO wreckage to Carswell AFB. He could not have done so, for he was never a pilot. Despite this, Marcel claimed in numerous interviews with Friedman and former National Enquirer reporter Bob Pratt that he was not only a pilot but had managed to shoot down five enemy aircraft!"

    Robin, are we too believe that you are quoting a NATIONAL ENQUIRER REPORTER as a source of reliable reporting?????? Now that really is a joke!!!!!! What next, reliable commentary from the Weekly World News???


    Your argument also fails to explain why the United States Air Force lied to the American public for over fourty years in an attempt to cover up the aerial deployment of CRASH TEST DUMMIES????

    THAT idea is so erroneous for so many reasons it makes MY head hurt.

    UPDATE: I went to your credible website. Nothing says CREDIBILITY more than trying to hawk T-shirts and coffee cups as the prime eye-grabber on your web page. That really screams objective journalism to me.
     
  21. Horsefly

    Horsefly F1 Veteran

    May 14, 2002
    6,929
    More from that "credible" web site:

    "Marcel and two Counter Intelligence Corps agents, Sheridan Cavitt and Lewis Rickett, drove out to the ranch where Brazel worked to examine and collect the wreckage."

    According to all the reports that I've read, Marcel accompanied Brazel by himself on the first trip to the site. As the story goes, Marcel and Brazel spent the night in a line shack at the ranch before going out to the debris field early the next morning. It wasn't just a "quick drive" out to the area. It was a long trip across a giant ranch which took many hours. On the first trip, they filled the trunk of Marcel's staff car with debris which Marcel took back to his own house very late that night.

    Also, why is their no mention of Jessie Marcel's son on that site? His son, a retired dentist, has also repeated the story of how his dad arrived home very late that night with strange metallic debris from an unknown aircraft. Are we to believe that Marcel's son is also a liar and is carrying on the cloak of hogwash for a second generation? Somehow, I doubt that.

    Also from that website:

    "As mentioned earlier, Colonel Thomas J. DuBose, who later retired as a brigadier general, was present when the wreckage was brought into Ramey's office. There's no disputing this fact, because DuBose met the B-29 personally when it arrived at Carswell AFB (Fort Worth) from Roswell carrying the debris that Marcel had collected."

    Are we to now believe that an entire B-29 bomber was utilized to carry a few scraps of a weather balloon or spy balloon from Roswell to Carswell? Seems like a waste of an aircraft, fuel, and personel to send a giant B-29 bomber for the purpose of transporting a few pounds of scrap balloon from one airbase to another. I'm sure all the officers at Carswell knew what a weather balloon looked like. They surely didn't need a B-29 to deliver one to their doorstep.
     
  22. Horsefly

    Horsefly F1 Veteran

    May 14, 2002
    6,929
    And a couple more bits of contradictory information.

    Once again, from that "credible" website:

    "DuBose not only greeted the incoming plane, but hand carried the wreckage remnants in a sealed canvas mail pouch, immediately escorting it to Ramey's office."


    If the Roswell debris was JUST the remains of a weather balloon, why couldn't that fact be telephoned from Roswell to Carswell and be done with the matter instead of flying the debris in a "sealed canvas mail pouch" inside of a B-29 bomber. Do Air Force Colonels routinely escort scraps of commom weather balloons from one base to another?

    And if we are NOW suppose to believe that those scraps were part of a top secret Project Mogul balloon, why would anybody put such scraps on display and relate this strange incident IN ANY WAY to a matter of balloons when in fact balloons WERE being used as top secret spy platforms? That's like hanging around a bank robbery crime scene with cash and guns hanging out of your pockets. Seems to me that would be one SURE way to encourage suspicion and inquiries from everybody about the incident.
     
  23. whart

    whart F1 Veteran
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    I'm glad you started this thread. I believe Hillary whacked Vince Foster and that Princess Di was the victim of a sordid homosexual hit squad under the pay of the Prince. Whether or not any of that is true, it is thought provoking.

    As to rule by the few, you might want to check out Jim Marr's books, including Rule by Secrecy, as well as Holy Blood, Holy Cross (or somesuch, i might have the title wrong but its close). The first tracks on the very topic you started:- tracing modern secret societies back in time to the Aliens. The second book is a bit repetitive, but, if you've read The Da Vinci Code, it contains alot of the "facts" behind that story; namely, that Jesus had a child, that mother and child were secreted in a part of France that became a center for the Knights Templar and the really secret society that controlled them, the Priory de Sion, and that the Crusades were more than simply a landgrab/pillaging opportunity, but an attempt to reinstate a descendant of Jesus to power in Jerusaleum.

    There are also some amusing conspiracy sites on the web, but some tend to get a little extreme, going into white supremacist, neo-nazi stuff that i find a little disturbing. But, as to Aliens, and mind control, i am totally tracking!
     
  24. sjmst

    sjmst F1 Veteran
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  25. Sin

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  26. WCH

    WCH F1 Veteran
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    Wouldn't it be almost a relief if the world were controlled by an elite few? Complexity is scary, conspiracy is fun - look at the success of the Da Vinci Code. I just finished a book about Rwanda that in my next to useless opinion nicely described layers of diplomatic, political, social, economic and cultural complexity ("We wish to inform you that tomorrow we will be killed with our families," by Philip Gourevitch, highly recommend it).
     
  27. Robin

    Robin F1 Rookie

    Nov 1, 2003
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    This 'obscure' website happens to be that of CSICOP, a group of scientists, philosophers, and intellectuals who investigate outrageous claims with the purpose of injecting a bit of common sense into the world. They utilize the scientific method, critical thinking, and a healthy dose of skepticism to approach wild claims from an objective standpoint and debunk the myths while confirming the truth.

    Now then... a favorite saying in the world of science is "extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence." The word of Marcel, which has been shown to be questionable, is not enough to claim that his story is true. There has to be some better evidence to back him up. The UFO buffs who conducted all the interviews that eventually went into the kinds of books you read apparently interviewed 70-80 people, while only 25 were included in any books.. of those 25, only a dozen or so were actual witnesses to anything surrounding the events, and of those, only 5 made any claims that they actually saw or handled some debris from the wreckage, and of those, all of them have massive holes in their stories (3 of which are cited above). In addition, the authors who wrote the books have similar holes in their backgrounds.. mostly falsifying their credentials. Why do all these people have to exaggerate and lie? Is the truth not interesting enough?

    So you're saying that 1 of the 2 people who actually found the debris said it was just standard aircraft wreckage? And the other person has been shown to be a liar and exaggerater. Soooooo.....tell me again why you believe this stuff?

    I knew you'd say that. It's kind of funny actually, because you misunderstood the quote. The National Enquirer reporter is the guy who did the interviews that the pro-UFO books are based on, not the guy who debunked the UFO reports. He wrote a book about it, that people like you now cite as fact. So the tables are turned... YOU believe stories based on 'facts' gathered by a National Enquirer reporter.

    Actually no, it's now known that the balloon was from Project Mogul "...the unclassified purpose of the project was to develop constant-level balloons for meteorological purposes...Its classified purpose was to try to develop a way to monitor possible Soviet nuclear detonations with the use of low-frequency acoustic microphones placed at high altitudes." That's something you'd probabyl wanna keep secret eh? And it's not secret anymore. The gov't came out years ago and said "ok here's what really happened.." but like most "open minded" people, you'll just say that it's a lie or proof of a coverup. Yes there WAS a cover up, but they weren't covering up the recover of aliens... it was a matter of national security. The military likes to keep a wrap on these things ya know...

    -R
     
  28. Robin

    Robin F1 Rookie

    Nov 1, 2003
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    Yes that's what the story is. Note that the quote you listed just says that Marcel visited the site with other security officers.. they weren't implying that this was the FIRST visit to the site..This is when they went BACK to it..

    It's funny you mention that, because oddly enough, there was NO story between 1947 and 1978, when some whack job UFO geek decided to write a book about it. Marcel was an unobscure nobody for 31 years, then suddenly he was a superstar eyewitness to aliens on earth. Why didn't anyone care about it for 31 years? As for his son, ever heard of people trying to grab the spotlight and extend their 15 minutes of fame?

    When the upper echelon knows that it's not a standard weather balloon (see: Project Mogul) you better believe they'll do whatever they can to recover it. If a new aircraft that's being developed in secret suddenly crashes into someone's backyard, you can be sure there will be brass there to make sure there's a lid on it. What's more likely.. they tried to keep it secret because it was a highly classified project, or it was a crashed alien spacecraft? HMMM...why do people always reach for the far fetched answer?

    -R
     

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