348 Engine repair thread

This is all great and part of a long running discussion. Marks are timing marks if done right, right is almost impossible without changing the cams. Totally support the discussion

As far as I know... FBB correct me... those cam marks at the smallest increment is like 1/2 degree and that's cam degrees not crank.

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Going iterative calculus in pure engineering form is as absolute as you can get but you know old Newtonian mechanics works for the macro world.

According to RifleDriver the process is not ambiguous. People just aren't following instructions.

 

Right! And that's why lock and swap isn't a good way to do it. Especially if the cams are left pinned. But hey...all the cars seem to run consumer acceptable.

 

When you let the tensioner go on a 348, the cams on the 1-4 side retard slightly from the pully tightening there first. The ones on the 5-8 seemed ok until I got the 1-4 side correct then the 5-8 was off. And by off I mean slightly like Johns diagram. One thing for sure, at least in my experience, the belt tension has to be correct before you try and time those cams or you'll go mad convinced they don't line up and call it good enough. Seen many marks on 1 or more cams off slightly in major threads.

That 140-145 hz number was the key for me that allowed the stars to line up once re-pinned. Prior to that re-pinning moved it one side or the other. At least in my case.

 

With regard to my rolling ball problem the answer is a simple NO. You can not tell when the ball stops by observing its position. The reason is not complex calculus. The reason is to know the ball has stopped you must observe that it doesn't move for some period of time, however short. So by the time you observe that it stopped, it's history. With regard to TDC, the ball is the piston and time is rotation of the crank.

Now, you could record the motion and look at the history but no one does that to find TDC. Or, you can rotate the crank in discrete increments. Start at 0 degrees and note the reading in the dial gauge is X, then rotate to 1 degree and the reading is Y, then to 2 degrees and note that the reading remains at Y. The conclusion you can draw from that is only that TDC is somewhere between 0 and 1+ degree. I'm not saying the errors are large. Just that they are ever present.

Oh, and please don't anyone get all worked up over this. It's all really just an old man's pointless discussion. Regardless of how it's done, the cams get timed and the engines run just fine. Or, you can be like me. Run the dam belts 10 - 15 years and you don't have to worry about cam timing very often. At 75 yrs old I figure I'll break before the belts on my 308 or 355 do.

Anyway, Eric, I yield the remainder of my time to you.

 

Eric, can you put some marks on the pulley that you can read once the engine is back in the car? Be interesting to see where things are after a few 100 miles.

 

Already done, someone along the way rotated the pully so the actual Ferrari pully marks don't line up with the inspection cap marks. I made new ones with white paint marker.

 

Look what finally came in. Whole freaking car is new. [emoji106]

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I was just wondering how progress was going on this.... Must be getting close now?

 

lol I bent a valve somehow I think on the bench when I put it on the jig I must have not had it aligned correctly and for a second. I did a leak down after it was assembled and found intake bent, so I took it down again ha ha. You could hear it hissing out the TB. The other cylinders were between 1%- 2% just outstanding job they did. Waiting for the head again now.

But in the mean time I pulled the water pump and had new 304 stainless dowels machined fore the water pump halves since the new pump dowels had a different OD and I was not comfortable with the old dowels in there as it was sloppy on the impeller side. Honestly I was kind of sad to have it together again I missed working on it so its not all bad.

I actually have a stack of them if anyone needs them. Also made new pully shims in .01 and .005 thickness to dial it in, have a stack of those too. While I was at it I sourced new front springs in yellow to match the new rear yellow springs I put in.

 

Where did you get your aftermarket pump from? I noticed AW Italian and Ricambi sell ones that look similar but since they are unbranded I'm not sure if they are from the same manufacturer.
The one I ordered also did not have properly fitting dowels which is disappointing for such an expensive item.

 

I got mine at Ricambi, the pumps are the same is not a reseller or vendor issue its a mfg issue. I believe Daniel took it up with the mfg'r.

None the less I have spare dowels, yes as it was easy to solve with a bit of machining. I can send you 2 for free in the US but you'll need to send pics of your engine out as evidence as your new to the forum.

Not sure if your replacing the cam pully, but I have spacers for those.

Where are you located your profile is not complete.

 

Oh no, what a pain!! I know what you mean, I was enjoying working on my car and was kinda sad to get mine together too.......But I have a project I am going to do to it soon which I'll do a thread on here once we get it done.

Yes I had that issue with the Hills pump as well, I also had to fair it up a bit too as the surface was not quite true. They are a good pump but the finishing was a bit disappointing to be honest, especially considering the price, but good to know this is all being addressed.

Looking forward to seeing this job all done, and I'm sure you're even more keen to get to drive it again!!

 

Ohh man totally, driving season is coming to a close too in this region. I plan to completely ruin my 12K mile car with another 50K miles, road trips etc, maybe drive up the coast and visit johnk...

 

I've decided I'm just going to use my car, they are so rewarding to drive it would be a crime to try and keep the miles down........A drive up the coast seems like a great idea as a reward for all the hard work!!

 

Yep my thinking, personally I bought to enjoy not to polish with a diaper in the garage. Its a car not an investment.

 

Absolutely, same for me too, its all about the driving experience, maintaining it, and enjoying that side of it. Yes, they can appreciate and you can make some money, but like you, thats not why I bought it, I want to drive it!!

 

I took a closer look at mine and saw that it is even worse than I first realized. Besides the razor sharp edges, the impeller is not actually parallel to the pump body. A very quick test had a clearance variation of .5mm which means the impeller to housing(outlet side) would never be in spec. I also saw the casting for the impeller is defective and has a hole in one of the fins. I'm not sure how deep it goes but I won't be finding out.
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Need to keep this thread on track, you'd do better to share this in a new thread with a new title. But what I can see there in your picture is something that looks like a copy of a Hill Engineering pump. Mine was all nicely machined, not just a raw casting like that is.

 

Hill Engineering does not make waterpumps, and never has.

I do not know who manufactures these pumps -- but they are sold and/or distributed by a variety of suppliers. You can ask me via PM, email, or telephone call "Hey, who actually manufactures this pump? Where is this pump physically assembled?" and you'll get the same answer. I don't know. It could be east-Timbuktu, or it could be midtown Manhattan. I don't know.

At the present time, I have changed my approach to waterpumps significantly. Things might change later in time - but for now, I sell rebuild kits for the 355,360,550,575,612 using Genuine Ferrari components. I sell complete Ferrari replacement pumps for the 308/328 and rarely for the 348. That's it.

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My impeller was machined not cast. I'll double check.

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Welcome any time. We do have a pretty good C&C Sunday morning. Varies between a few cars to 20 or more.

 

When I had a 348 I bought from Dan multiple times. He is a straight up and honest businessman. I have never ever had an issue with anything I’ve ever bought from him. If there was ever any issue Dan would resolve it immediately! As I said I never had an issue with him, ever.

Daniel-san you are a straight up dude!

 

Well, there you go, thank you for clearing that up (don't believe everything you read on the interweb.), it explains a lot about the quality of the pump I received from you about 2 years ago. It was a lot better than the one pictured in this thread but still required some finishing which I was equipped to do so it wasn't a big deal at all, i wasn't about to make a fuss about it because it is somewhat part of the nature of aftermarket parts, to a point.

 

Heard from machine shop, took apart, mic'ed all valves, intake and exhausts, no bent valves. Checked seals and checked shim clearance to double check original work, no issues all in spec. Verified it seals completely which is what happened last time. Definitely heard air coming from the TB so it was intake. '

Says on a few valves there was some debris on the seat of unknown origin that would prevent sealing. Perhaps my intake was not a clean or had some remnant from my scrubbing that made it way down. In any event the issue was not bent valve. Better safe than sorry.

Either way I now have a grip of spare valves for some unknown use. Pick them up Sunday.

I went ahead and did the Ferrari method of TDC this time. I rather like this method, you can see an measure both sides to confirm. Something reassuring about that. Plus you can get it dead nuts.

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