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Experiences with a 308 alternator

Discussion in 'Technical Q&A' started by ham308, Nov 30, 2003.

  1. ham308

    ham308 Formula Junior

    Nov 3, 2003
    358
    NE Switzerland
    Full Name:
    Richard Ham
    Replacing the alternator has been well documented on this site, but I’d just like to take a more serious look at what’s involved.

    Firstly if you’ve got an Orang-utan in the family, and let’s face it many of us have, then give him the job. The sort of forearms more suited to hanging from branches are a definite plus. Another good reason for using him is that he won’t be surprised when he finds some other monkey has put the lower fixing bolt in the wrong way round so that it collides with the dipstick pipe and won’t come out. Having reached this stage, you can go back into the house, have a beer and search this site for ‘alternator’ AND ‘dipstick’. You’ll find a whole bunch of posts from people once in the same position. There are a number of choices. Cut the dipstick pipe (must be like keyhole surgery) and braze it back together afterwards. Get a special tool to remove the pipe. This one cheered me up no end….. http://www.ferrarichat.com/discus/messages/256120/138323.html

    I followed the advice to remove the mounting bracket instead. This involves cutting your 17 mm ring spanner in half and manoeuvring it over the mounting bracket nut. You can then put a bigger ring spanner over the one you have just ruined and apply some of the force that keeps you up in the forest canopy to loosen the bracket bolts.

    Things are definitely looking up at this stage, you have however still got a heavy alternator attached by what looks like an umbilical cord. Back to the posts and you find, ‘it is easier to disconnect the alternator from the starter motor end’. Now this is undoubtedly correct, but it is relative. The starter motor is long way down a dark hole on the other side of the engine and you need the sort of skills that probably make Italians brilliant lovers to fiddle about down there and loosen off the two wires.

    Anyway, having got it out, I found I could get a replacement (Magneti Marelli) alternator for 150 US$ from a general automotive parts supplier, so it didn’t seem worth replacing only the voltage regulator which apparently is often all it needs.

    With the alternator out, you can check the wiring circuit in the car by making sure the resistance between the two wires that go to the alternator is ~120 ohms, (battery disconnected and the ignition switched on).

    Putting it back in, is the reverse procedure as they say. Unbelievable I know, but it is actually more difficult. Have you ever tried fiddling about putting the two halves of a snap connector together on a starter motor, using one hand stretched down a dark hole. For some of us it is possible, (ask my wife…. :) )
     
  2. Steve King

    Steve King F1 Rookie

    Feb 15, 2001
    4,353
    NY
    Ham funny story. You need to write more repair guides. I guess nobody worked on my alt. before me so it only took 2 hours to remove. Had it rebuilt by a Bosch guy and updated to 80A for $100. Took me 20 mins to install and another 1/2 hr to finish the job. I want to hear your story on doing a belt change.
     
  3. 308GTS

    308GTS Formula 3

    Dec 27, 2001
    2,220
    TN
    Where did you get the replacement alternator? Do you have a part # for it? Thanks.
     
  4. jeffdavison

    jeffdavison Formula 3
    Silver Subscribed

    Jul 29, 2002
    2,247
    Suwanee Georgia
    Full Name:
    Jeffrey Davison
    The early 308's are the same as the '80 + Fiat Spiders and Lancia Betas. 55 amp w/o A/C, 65 amp w/ A/C.

    Any Pep Boys, Auto Zone, Kragen can cross reference.

    Ocaisionally you can find a reman on eBay for around $65.


    Jeff Davison
     
  5. ham308

    ham308 Formula Junior

    Nov 3, 2003
    358
    NE Switzerland
    Full Name:
    Richard Ham
    308gts,
    unless your in Switzerland I don't think this will help you much.

    It was from the suppliers Derendinger, (quite big here), part no. -
    CA 1435 IR
    Alternator, HC-PARTS / HELLA
    12V 55 A, Marelli design
    Derendinger-Nr: CA 1435 IR,

    It was an almost perfect fit for the original BOSCH alternator -
    0 0120 489 541 542

    just had to take a bit off the thickness of the original pulley so that there was enough thread sticking out to fix it securely. Otherwise all dimensions were the same.

    hope this helps
     
  6. 308GTS

    308GTS Formula 3

    Dec 27, 2001
    2,220
    TN
    Ok, thanks for the info. I appreciate it. I would like to be able to find one at Autozone or the like. I didn't know they had them. Thanks for the info guys.
     
  7. Verell

    Verell F1 Veteran
    Owner Consultant

    May 5, 2001
    6,951
    Groton, MA
    Full Name:
    Verell Boaen
    308GTS,
    You won't have too much luck at AZ or PepBoys.

    However, any shop that rebuilds BOSCH alternators for Volvos, Saabs, Mercedes, etc. can rebuild it.

    BTW, the BOSCH alternators themselves seem to be pretty bulletproof, (typical German engineering).

    What usually kills the pre 1984 308 alternators is oil drops from the cam cover or cam seals dripping down & getting sucked into it(typical Ferrari engineering - where's the worst place you could put an alternator, yup, that's where it is.). A little oil on the slip rings & the brushes chew a groove 2mm deep in a couple of thousand miles. Next the groove causes the brushes to break & ruin the regulator.

    Thus a rebuild is typically a throrogh cleaning followed by replacing the regulator,slip rings,& both bearings, then a load check. Less than an hour's labor for a shop that's setup to do alternator rebuilds.

    Rebuild costs run anywhere from $150 - $350 US. It can pay to shop around.

    A lot of shops don't like to replace the slip rings, will recommend a new rotor instead. Slip rings are a PITA to remove/replace but are fairly cheap. Rotors run $185-$250 & may have to come from Bosch HQ in Germany.

    Sometime in '84 Ferrari got smart and put a sealed cover over the back of the alternator with a vent tube that pulls air from below the frame.
     
  8. Shamile

    Shamile F1 Veteran

    Dec 31, 2002
    6,167
    Lakeland FL
    Full Name:
    Shamile
    Dear Ferraristi,

    I can now speak about removing a 308 alternator with authority. :)

    With Ferrarichat and especially Verrell's help, I was able to do it.

    I couple things I learned was:

    Put the car on jack stands so you can go through the side and quickly go underneath as needed. Disconnect from the starter from under the car. Slacken the tension bolt from underneath.

    Unbolt the alternator and leave on manafold while unbolting mounting bracket. Unbolt protection plate and wires from back of alternator before going through the " removal " process.

    You do not need to remove the dipstick tube.

    Might as well drain and change coolant while at the job.

    MAKE SURE you CLEAN ( WITH SANDPAPER ) the wiring harness connectors and ALL connectors at the starter or you will think after you have finished the whole job and you don't get a charge at the battery, you won't blame the alternator and take it out all over again for the shop only to bench test it and it works fine. Yes, THIS happened to me.
    YES, I did it twice, YES I drained the coolant Twice.

    BUT...I couldn't have done it with out this great community of Ferraristi.
     
  9. Shamile

    Shamile F1 Veteran

    Dec 31, 2002
    6,167
    Lakeland FL
    Full Name:
    Shamile
    Dear Ferraristi,

    I forgot, It cost me 220.00 at Central Florida Remanufacturing in Orlando.

    It is the shop Ferrari Of Central Florida uses. I got it back looking Concours New.

    The person to talk to is Ray. I don't have the number on me now, but if anyone wants it, email me.
     
  10. jeffdavison

    jeffdavison Formula 3
    Silver Subscribed

    Jul 29, 2002
    2,247
    Suwanee Georgia
    Full Name:
    Jeffrey Davison

    You have to use a pre-QV alternator mounting block. I can send you pics and recipts to show you it IS so, cuz I've done it.

    JD
     
  11. jeffdavison

    jeffdavison Formula 3
    Silver Subscribed

    Jul 29, 2002
    2,247
    Suwanee Georgia
    Full Name:
    Jeffrey Davison
    Here's one up on eBay as we speak!
    http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=33573&item=2446295497

    Jeff Davison
     
  12. Verell

    Verell F1 Veteran
    Owner Consultant

    May 5, 2001
    6,951
    Groton, MA
    Full Name:
    Verell Boaen
  13. jeffdavison

    jeffdavison Formula 3
    Silver Subscribed

    Jul 29, 2002
    2,247
    Suwanee Georgia
    Full Name:
    Jeffrey Davison

    Verell,

    I'm building a 308QV that will be supercharged. This is with Mark Eberhardts help. What I found was if you use the pre QV lower mounting bracket, you can use the Fiat/Lancia/ PreQV alternator. The bracket allows for proper mounting and for proper alignment of the pullies.

    I got the pre QV bracket from T-Rutlands for cheap. It bolts directly to the QV with no mods as if it were stock. Also you'll have to use a pre-QV upper alternator mounting arm as well, again..cheap from Rutlands.

    There is a an aftermarket kit available for the Bosch 65a regulator that uses a replacement brush assembly and an external Ford type voltage regulator for around $40 that has the advantage of getting the alternator to have higher output (83a measured) at a lower RPM.

    Here's a how-to article on what's involved:

    http://www.turbobricks.org/mods.php?content=alternator_ext-reg

    Here's a kit if you're a bit DIY challanged:

    http://www.linkline.com/personal/dbarton/AdjustableVoltage.html
    Jeff Davison
     
  14. daddad

    daddad Rookie

    Dec 6, 2011
    26
    Middletown,N.Y.
    Full Name:
    Ken
    If removing alternator the small wire is the dash light sensor mine was a female spade non insulated connector which hits the alternator case replace it with insulated 90 degree one.
     

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