News

F40 Current Values

Discussion in '288GTO/F40/F50/Enzo/LaFerrari' started by dustman, Jun 11, 2019.

  1. dustman

    dustman F1 Rookie

    Jun 12, 2007
    3,712
    Looking for fact based insights of real, current values of the iconic F40, globally.

    Leave your under and overvalued opinions for a different thread.

    Who has real data to start....
     
  2. joe sackey

    joe sackey Four Time F1 World Champ
    Sponsor

    May 23, 2006
    48,147
    Southern California
    Full Name:
    Joe Sackey
    Here is a good resource which documents sold auction results, most recent at the top https://www.glenmarch.com/cars/results/quick/Ferrari/F40?unsold=1 scroll down for the F40 sold data, and hit 'Details' for detailed information.
     
    Caeruleus11 and anunakki like this.
  3. dustman

    dustman F1 Rookie

    Jun 12, 2007
    3,712
    Much appreciated.
     
  4. willcrook

    willcrook Formula Junior

    Feb 3, 2009
    973
    UK
    [​IMG]
    there are raw alternatives to the f40 at a much cheaper price:

    £80k will get you a nice 740bhp / 980kg brand new Ultima RS with bluetooth, sat nav, suspension lift, leather dash, carbon fiber wing, even has a luggage compartment !

    [​IMG]

    manual gearbox, no drivers aids, abs etc

    insane value for money and quicker than a p1/la/918, pista or senna round a track!

    just in the process of ordering mine.
     
  5. dustman

    dustman F1 Rookie

    Jun 12, 2007
    3,712
    USA legal?
     
  6. BJK

    BJK Formula Junior

    Jul 18, 2014
    363
    CT
    Caeruleus11 and joe sackey like this.
  7. willcrook

    willcrook Formula Junior

    Feb 3, 2009
    973
    UK
    ah, they're road legal here in the UK and can be registered in europe.

    I presumed they could be registered in the states too as I thought that's how jim glickenhaus sells his cars.
     
  8. joe sackey

    joe sackey Four Time F1 World Champ
    Sponsor

    May 23, 2006
    48,147
    Southern California
    Full Name:
    Joe Sackey
    Nice looking car but I think the thread's topic is F40 Current Values.

    Indeed.

    What I see characterizing the F40 market is the range of values, say from this level https://rmsothebys.com/en/auctions/MO18/Monterey/lots/r0106-1990-ferrari-f40/694019 down to this level https://rmsothebys.com/en/auctions/PA18/Paris/lots/r0026-1992-ferrari-f40/578126

    This source tracked 37 auction sales over a 15 year period ending last year to give us an idea

    Image Unavailable, Please Login
     
    Caeruleus11 likes this.
  9. joe sackey

    joe sackey Four Time F1 World Champ
    Sponsor

    May 23, 2006
    48,147
    Southern California
    Full Name:
    Joe Sackey
    Specific Average - High - Low data for the 4 years preceding this one from the same source for the same selection if F40's auctioned looks like this

    Image Unavailable, Please Login
     
    fbrs2 and Caeruleus11 like this.
  10. C50

    C50 Formula Junior
    Silver Subscribed

    Aug 19, 2016
    438
    808
    Any thoughts regarding the ~2.1M sale in 2013?
    Appears to be an outlier.
    Was there some unique provenance to that particular F40?
    Just curious
    Thanks
     
  11. PAUL500

    PAUL500 Formula 3

    Jun 23, 2013
    2,048
    Its an interesting topic as there are many sub groups within the 1300 odd run.

    Early plexi window cars are seen as the purest (first 50 or so cars) then you have pre cat and post car ROW cars after that.

    The sub group of US spec versions should really be broken out of the main group all together, as these would not command any sort of premium outside the US, but very much do so within its borders.

    ROW is slowly being drained of its own cars now they are post 25 years old and can be used on the road in certain US states, being drawn over to that country as they represent a saving over a US spec car.

    Then you have currency fluctuations moving the cars around. The UK pound has been on its arse for some time now, so any examples being sold there are attractive for export.

    Within the whole grouping you have the ornament cars, those with ultra low miles that will never be used.

    Hiding within the group are also numerous "Phoenix" cars, some with dubious Identities and conditions of rebuild, plus the mainly Japanese cars which often have had a host of modifications.

    Also you have the LM versions, originals either by Michelotto or other race outfits, both in period and later on.

    Its a minefield, but must be a great one to explore if you are a potential buyer :)
     
    LVP488, Caeruleus11, fbrs2 and 3 others like this.
  12. rmolke85

    rmolke85 Formula Junior

    Mar 11, 2013
    536
    The above post is spot on in my view. There are sub-groups to this car unlike the other super cars and that’s important to understand going forward. History has shown that specific USA version cars lag overtime as the 25yr rule kicks in and cars can travel here. It will be interesting but there seems to be a lot of Euro cars out on Instagram that are now in the USA.

    My next thought is , is the US F40 now the California F40? Really that’s the only state I believe that wouldn’t let you register a ROW F40. To me it’s a vastly different car. Any variant of any car with 250+ extra pounds standard just won’t drive similarly. Also I’m pretty sure all the raving in period tests were not done with a USA car. They sound look and would seems to drive differently although I have not driven both types.
     
  13. ttforcefed

    ttforcefed F1 Veteran
    Rossa Subscribed

    Aug 22, 2002
    9,609
  14. dustman

    dustman F1 Rookie

    Jun 12, 2007
    3,712
    Thx Joe, this is great insight.
     
    joe sackey likes this.
  15. Caeruleus11

    Caeruleus11 F1 Veteran
    Rossa Subscribed

    Jun 11, 2013
    8,459
    You can also do research here and discover various pros and cons of the ROW v USA cars. I think the USA car drives super fabulous. I prefer it, but I only had one choice anyway!

    When the F40 came out not all road tests were positive. I remember reading several reviews that were very skeptical and even critical. The one that I remember the most was Autoweek (I think) which said something like: not as pretty as the Testarossa for the road, and not focused enough for the track.

    No one can predict the future, least of all auto writers!
     
  16. rmolke85

    rmolke85 Formula Junior

    Mar 11, 2013
    536
    Autoweek is an American publication hence my comments. 250lbs would make any car much less track friendly. That, plexi windows, and fuel bladders would take care of the outright less focused USA car.

    Just because Ferrari did it doesn't mean its not akin to other USA cars of that era that got bumpers, FI when carbs were available, different suspensions, seats, exhausts ect ect ect. We Americans get the shaft on most cars and to me this example is one of the most stark in the car world but not really talked about. Just my two cents. Conversely there will always be reasons why someone would pick a US car over a ROW. Like they live in California, or dont want fuel bladders.
     
    Caeruleus11 likes this.
  17. fbrs2

    fbrs2 Formula Junior

    Sep 7, 2012
    267
    UK/Cayman
    Clearly the US car is not how Ferrari wanted the F40 to be. The seat belts alone are a monument to stupidity!
     
    Caeruleus11 and rmolke85 like this.
  18. BarryK

    BarryK Formula Junior

    Dec 17, 2016
    859
    Europe
    Full Name:
    Barry K
    Fully agree, but if Ferrari hadn't built a US version, however compromised it may have been, we would have ended up with just a collector's item in the US, much like the Monza SP of today. And that would hardly have helped in building the reputation the F40 has globally today.

    There's no excuse for those lame seatbelts though!
     
  19. fbrs2

    fbrs2 Formula Junior

    Sep 7, 2012
    267
    UK/Cayman
    Absolutely. It's like the F40 was designed by Ferrari and the US F40 was designed by Ferrari and the NHSTA. A mildly compromised USA F40 is better than no USA F40 at all. I think US collectors will continue to pay a premium for US cars though.
     
  20. Caeruleus11

    Caeruleus11 F1 Veteran
    Rossa Subscribed

    Jun 11, 2013
    8,459
    Yes indeed.

    I always loved the look of the USA F40, it just looks a bit longer due to the lower bumper/air catcher, and thus, the ROW car looks just a little bit bulkier, but I admit that the more I look at the ROW cars I appreciate the cleaner look. My car dynos out to exactly 480hp at the wheels. So its clearly making more power than quoted. There are some very knowledgable people here like Joe Sackey who could probably confirm this, but I heard they increased the power for the US. And also I think we have slightly shorter gears. All I know is when I drive this car as intended I don't think its lacking for anything, including lightness. Strangely, I also don't find the brakes bad, but maybe its because I'm accepting the fact that these are brakes on a 1990 car using 1980s technology! Sure the seatbelts (made by Singer, the sewing machine people!) are stupid, but are you going to let that get in the way of a great thing? Never!

    By the way, I'm pretty sure the Autoweek article was a first drive in Europe. I remember being surprised at their conclusion.

    Anyway, I remember discussing with someone knowledgable on the topic a while ago who felt the F40 was one time the USA benefitted from further development. Of course, there is room for differing opinions. I'm not even sure if I think one is better or worse. To me they are just pros and cons of different versions.

    Anyway, I think you are right that its likely there will be a premium in the US for USA cars, as long as they are lower mile cars, well documented and in great condition.
     
  21. ross

    ross Two Time F1 World Champ
    Silver Subscribed Owner

    Mar 25, 2002
    27,911
    houston/geneva
    Full Name:
    Ross
    mine is a ROW car. it already has a lot of different mods to it - tubi, lowered, 'LM' turbos which apparently push the power to 550+ bhp, bigger brake kit, fire suppression system for passenger compartment and engine compartment. i dont really care that it would never pass classiche because it now drives and stops and sounds better. i kept all original parts.
    i replaced the regular seat belts with a 5 point harness. really glad i dont have the mouse belts. i kept all these original parts too.

    because it is not a 'pure' car, i am also contemplating changing the fuel bladders to either the usa type, or the other after market rigid ones since they will last forever.
    as well, i have thought about swapping out the front rubber lip to the american 'cow catcher' type since i think that looks more aggressive. but that might be a step too far.....we shall see.

    i suspect my car would suffer in valuation because it is not pristine, but its a better option for me since i want to drive it, not just look at it.

    i have always thought that the premium the usa cars commanded would eventually be eroded as ROW cars over 25 years came in, but it does depend on individual desires - some like the oem usa version better. to each his own. now they are all over 25, and are fungible more/less worldwide.
     
    nis1973, Caeruleus11 and Bas Jaski like this.
  22. joe sackey

    joe sackey Four Time F1 World Champ
    Sponsor

    May 23, 2006
    48,147
    Southern California
    Full Name:
    Joe Sackey
    #22 joe sackey, Jun 13, 2019 at 12:54 AM
    Last edited: Jun 13, 2019 at 1:38 AM
    I thought that was an F40LM which got placed within the data, but I'm not in a place where I can check.

    True about the power, and I agree with you absolutely about the brakes, if you know how to warm them up and use them judiciously, then they actually work very well, although they can give you anxious moments in traffic compared to modern-day brakes, the faster you go on the open road the better they work!
     
    Caeruleus11 and C50 like this.
  23. PAUL500

    PAUL500 Formula 3

    Jun 23, 2013
    2,048
    Does yours retain any of the original US spec parts? it must be unique in the UK?
     
  24. fbrs2

    fbrs2 Formula Junior

    Sep 7, 2012
    267
    UK/Cayman
    Yes, wisely I think, when Simpson integrated the full cage they kept the side impact 'outriggers'
     

Share This Page