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Food for thought - 360 Motor in a 308?

Discussion in 'Technical Q&A' started by Wayne 962, Jun 13, 2004.

  1. Wayne 962

    Wayne 962 Formula Junior

    Nov 27, 2003
    434
    Anyone thought about this? If the engine was run with a aftermarket Engine Management System?

    -Wayne
     
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  3. Diablo

    Diablo Formula Junior

    How would you bolt up the trans.......

    They are different on both models.....
     
  4. 208 GT4

    208 GT4 Formula 3

    Dec 27, 2003
    1,699
    Brighton (UK)
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    Dan
    The V8 in the 360 is mounted longitudinally, whereas it's tansverse in the 308.

    It would make for a very exciting car though!

    I was thinking of putting the Ferrari V8 from the Lancia Thema 8.32 into my 208 GT4, as they're both transverse fitments, and the 8.32 engines are quite cheap...they're the only Ferrari V8 without a flat plane crank apparently?

    However, I came to the conclusion that it would be cheaper to sell mine and buy a sorted 308 GT4 which would also have more power (240 vs 210).
     
  5. mk e

    mk e F1 World Champ

    Oct 31, 2003
    11,505
    The twilight zone
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    The Butcher
    Sounds like a lot of work. If you keep the 308 trans you need to do some adapting to the engine or trans....If you keep the 360 trans you'll probably need to strecht the car (GTO). I almost convinced myself to buy a TR driveline and rear subframe I saw on ebay and put it in, but then it wouldn't really be a 308 any more I guess. Any way, that's how I ended up with a supercharger, more hp without cutting the car and much cheaper than a 360 install would be.
     
  6. Auraraptor

    Auraraptor F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa Owner

    Sep 25, 2002
    11,395
    MO
    We have a member with a 12 in his 308.
     
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  8. Texas Forever

    Texas Forever Four Time F1 World Champ
    Rossa Subscribed

    Apr 28, 2003
    44,441
    Texas!
    Wayne, you are a very sick man, but I like it. What about putting a supercharger on top!
     
  9. ryalex

    ryalex Two Time F1 World Champ
    Consultant Owner

    Aug 6, 2003
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    Ryan Alexander
    I'd like to see a 575 engine in a 360.
     
  10. Wayne 962

    Wayne 962 Formula Junior

    Nov 27, 2003
    434
    Interesting comments. I don't think it would make much of a difference, the longitudinal vs. sideways (tranverse) mounting?

    You would need a flywheel adapter of some kind, or some special gears in the transfer housing? Does anyone know if the bell-housing bolt pattern is the same?

    In the Porsche world, a lot of the engines and transmissions will work on the early models because Porsche built all of the engines around the same similar design. I'm not familiar at all with the 360 engine, but it looks suprisingly similar to the 308 engine.

    For that matter, how about putting a 348 engine in a 308?

    I think eventually I will want to build a hot-rod engine for the 308. However, I'd like to do it on a surrogate engine (remove the original one and stick it in a corner). I was thinking that starting with a 348 or 360 engine would be a good first step in the right direction.

    -Wayne
     
  11. Auraraptor

    Auraraptor F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa Owner

    Sep 25, 2002
    11,395
    MO
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  13. steve f

    steve f F1 World Champ

    Mar 15, 2004
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    steve
    mansell ferrari in england put a 12cyl in a blue 328 years ago last heard of the car 2 years ago but dont no where it is now
     
  14. Wayne 962

    Wayne 962 Formula Junior

    Nov 27, 2003
    434
    Hmm, there isn't too much information out there, is there? Sad. The Porsche guys go nuts modifying just about anything they can get their hands on. I think it's because the parts are cheaper and easier to replace if you mess up?

    -Wayne
     
  15. mk e

    mk e F1 World Champ

    Oct 31, 2003
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    The Butcher
    That would be cool...and if Wayne has his way there will be one in need of an engine :)

    The thing with engine swapts is that unless it is pretty much a straight bolt in (like a 328 in a 308) it doesn't make a lot of sense hp/$ wise...a 308QV or 328 engine will easily make 300-320 hp naturally aspirated in street trim, so you don't gain much with a 348 engine. At 10 psi non-intercooled you are at 350-380 hp so a 355 or 360 engine stops make sense. Add an intercooler and a 575 engine is out of the running...at least from a performance stand point, it would be way way cool to see.

    Back in my young and stupid days, I did put a 500ci, 425hp cadilac engine/trans/subframe in a Fiat X1/9, very fast but obviously completely changed the charater of the car much more point and shoot with the extra weight.

    My 308 is actually a little hard to drive now too. It's just got so much torque...just running around town I usually shift by 3000-3500. The old engine at 10 psi made 190 ft-lbs at 2000 rpm, so it pulled harder at idle than the stock engine did at 5500...with the new engine I can't open the throttle past 2/3 in 1st or 3/4 in 2nd gear without the tires spinning and they spin if I hammer the 3rd gear shift....so I can be going 65mph on the highway, drop it in 3rd and light up the tires....I don't know how much more anyone could want. I guess replacing the blower whine with the roar of a naturally aspirated 575 engine would be an improvement, but would add quite a bit of weight.
     
  16. Wayne 962

    Wayne 962 Formula Junior

    Nov 27, 2003
    434
    mk e,

    Please point me in the direction of a post describing your car?

    -Wayne
     
  17. sparta49

    sparta49 F1 Veteran
    Owner

    Mar 3, 2001
    7,794
    LA
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    Frank
     
  18. Wayne 962

    Wayne 962 Formula Junior

    Nov 27, 2003
    434
    Indeed, let me clarify. I really meant "Porsche 911 and Porsche 914 owners." 928 and 924/944 Turbo owners pay way more than you guys for parts...

    -Wayne
     
  19. mk e

    mk e F1 World Champ

    Oct 31, 2003
    11,505
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    Here are a few threads I posted while building it. It's been having some teething problems, mostly in the EFI...it looks like its all sorted out now, the haltch E6k I was running just didn't have the power to run big injectors and DIS, the new E11 made a world of difference, I just need to finish the tuning now. I'm up to 55 lb/hr injectors and 60psi of fuel pressure (makes the injectors about 63 lb/hr) and 95% duty cycle ....so at full power it will use almost 500 lb/hr of fuel, at 6 lbs/gallon I think that means the 18 gallon tank is good for 14 minutes.

    http://www.ferrarichat.com/discus/messages/112/315437.html
    http://www.ferrarichat.com/discus/messages/112/324659.html
    http://ferrarichat.com/forum/showthread.php?t=4309
     
  20. ClydeM

    ClydeM F1 Veteran
    Rossa Subscribed Owner

    Nov 4, 2003
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    isn't that kinda what a 512BB is?
     
  21. Auraraptor

    Auraraptor F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa Owner

    Sep 25, 2002
    11,395
    MO
    No, I would say a BBi is more of a TR and less of a 308 with 12 cylinders.
     
  22. 208 GT4

    208 GT4 Formula 3

    Dec 27, 2003
    1,699
    Brighton (UK)
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    Dan
    You could have told me that before I ordered a load of parts for my 928 from you!

    Only joking, it was cheaper and easier to get my 928 bits from you than to get them locally (UK), and the after sales service was excellent.
     
  23. Wayne 962

    Wayne 962 Formula Junior

    Nov 27, 2003
    434
    Thanks - glad to hear we got it right. Usually, I only hear from customers with complaints!

    Let's say a 348 engine in good condition could be had for $4500. Would that make sense (combining it with a TEC-3, and some TWM throttle boddies) in a 308? Keeping the original engine stored in the corner of your garage?

    I have way too many projects, but this one has me thinking...

    -Wayne
     
  24. Auraraptor

    Auraraptor F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa Owner

    Sep 25, 2002
    11,395
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    If you can manage the trany issues, yes.
     
  25. tbakowsky

    tbakowsky F1 World Champ
    Professional Ferrari Technician Consultant

    Sep 18, 2002
    15,111
    The Cold North
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    Tom
    No real reason why it wont work...I'm going to try it. I have access to a 348 engine, and have an old 308 transmission. I'm going to remove the pan on the 348 and see how much needs to be done to get it to fit on a 308 trans. Sump modifications will have to be done in order to continue to run the dry sump. Crankshaft will have to be modified to accept a pilot bearing fo the 308 clutch, and will have to make sure the 308 bellhousing and flywheel will bolt on. You will have to make a starter mount as the 348 engine prvides no provision for this. If you can get the original ECM's and wiring you could use that.

    Over all it would not be a difficult project providig the mods are basic. But it will be expensive, and I don't know if it would be worth it. Although you would have one wwicked sounding 308..tubi no cats!! Wait a sec...355 engine?hmmmmm
     
  26. Auraraptor

    Auraraptor F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa Owner

    Sep 25, 2002
    11,395
    MO
    I agree, I think that a 95 355 engine would be even better. And you can take care of the gaskets while its out.
     
  27. cinquevalvole

    cinquevalvole Formula 3

    Feb 6, 2004
    1,149
    Germany, Bayern
    Who? I remember a 308 GTB offered with a Daytona V12 engine (350 hp)
    I would enjoy some pictures :)

    forza

    cinquevalvole
     
  28. atlantaman

    atlantaman Formula 3

    Mar 31, 2002
    1,726
    Roswell, Georgia
    Full Name:
    Charles
    The 308 328 motors mount up easliy to any 308 tranny

    the 348 has a verry different shape block bottom( i investigated this last month) same with teh 355 and 360---
    There would be major welding and machining required to do this --but interesting results--

    Now for a v-12 in a 308--you are talking 200+ hours of engineering and machining--i know--i did it--i still have the finished tranny/block here with EFI etc. just missing a set of heads
     

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