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Fuse/Relay Panel

Discussion in 'Mondial' started by Mondial 1985, Dec 16, 2014.

  1. Mondial 1985

    Mondial 1985 Formula Junior

    Jun 13, 2012
    342
    Greenville, SC
    Full Name:
    Mark Alan Day
    #1 Mondial 1985, Dec 16, 2014
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 17, 2014
    Hey guys, my fuse/relay pannel is infested with electrical gremlins.

    I've mentioned this before and I know others of you here on the Mondial page (plus those on the 308/328 and Testa Rossa pages) have also had electrical issues and brought 'em up from time to time. My original panel has some shoddy repairs and is in pretty bad shape.

    The area where the fuel control relays live seemed to be causing much of my fuel problems. Relays buzzing, not functioning properly, etc... I had some mechanics check the it out and they found current in the area around the panel, actually meaning that it was electically "bleeding".

    Probably shorting in some areas and everything else going crazy in others. The hotter the panel got, the worse my electrical problems got, including my gauges going haywire. Well, I'm going to replace the old one with a new one. It's actually pretty much like the old one except it eliminates that 5 layer circuit board.

    All fuse and relay points are mounted on what appears to be an ABS plastic substrate and all connection points are hard wired. I'm hopping that slays the gremlins. In order for me to connect the wires to this new panel, I will need to re-terminate the ends of those wires and remove the white plastic plugs.

    This replacement is not a "plug & play". The outer housing can't be re-installed and the wire terminals on the old board are smaller than the ones on the new board. I used to be an elctrician and my hobbies are Ammatuer Radio and High End Audio, so I'm pretty good at this sort of thing - definitely not a novice.

    I'll cut the old terminals off, re-crimp the wires, install heat shrink (colour coded), then identify each wire with numbered wire markers. It definitely won't be original after this. I've seen Fuse/Relay panels go for $1,295.00 - $1,695.00. This one was around $500.00, but I'm sure will do the trick - just won't "look" original.

    My question is this: Have any of you guys ever done this? Have you replaced your panels? What's your opinion on this modification? Originality?

    Thanks.
     
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  3. Wade

    Wade Three Time F1 World Champ
    Rossa Subscribed Owner

    Mar 31, 2006
    32,194
    East Central, FL
    Full Name:
    Wade O.
    In my opinion, the best of the breed (includes OEM, alternatives and replacements) is the fuse box from Scuderia Rampante. I don't have the technical specifics but Dave takes some (all?) of the high energy circuits off of the main board and other details as well.

    If you do a fuse box search here on FerrariChat for "Scuderia Rampante" or SRI you'll find lots a great info.

    I installed one in my 3.2 (Mar 2013) and it's been awesome ever since.

    For example:

    http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/mondial/431614-recommends-fusebox-rebuild.html

    http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/mondial/397125-starting-problems-dreaded-melted-fuel-pump-connection.html

    http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/mondial/405710-scuderia-rampante-innovations-fusebox-upgrade-installed.html

    There are other solutions but Dave's fix goes right to the root of the inherent problem.
     
  4. Wade

    Wade Three Time F1 World Champ
    Rossa Subscribed Owner

    Mar 31, 2006
    32,194
    East Central, FL
    Full Name:
    Wade O.
    BTW, my interests are primarily for drivability and reliability with originality being a close second. I'm not at all concerned about who the next owner might be. :)
     
  5. Mondial 1985

    Mondial 1985 Formula Junior

    Jun 13, 2012
    342
    Greenville, SC
    Full Name:
    Mark Alan Day
    Well, just remember; the first time you replace an item that was installed at the factory, the car's no longer original. I guess I'm gonna look at it that way. If I replace a few parts here and there with non Ferrari parts that provide better service and performance than the original, then it's OK by me.
     
  6. Wade

    Wade Three Time F1 World Champ
    Rossa Subscribed Owner

    Mar 31, 2006
    32,194
    East Central, FL
    Full Name:
    Wade O.
    True, with the exception being "consumables" (which may include the fuse box). ;)

    If you notice the photo in the third link, the fuse box from SRI is, without a doubt, a modification.
     
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  8. enzo52

    enzo52 Karting

    Aug 14, 2008
    129
    France, Paris
    Full Name:
    Depensadie Seraphin
    hi, are you refering to Guido's fuseboxes ?
    Mine is working fine since 5 years....no more troubles of that kind. The look is almost OEM...no relays behind or beside. I think Dave is still using the old motherboard, just putting wires to the most problematic areas. Not exactly a NEW, COMPLET solution.
    Others that I know have installed Guido's boxes :
    Afterburner, mondial
    Stekkefun4, mondial
    Gabriel ged.services@skynet.be, mondial
    Guido himself,mondial
    and also TR, 400 owners.
    Enzo52
     
  9. Wade

    Wade Three Time F1 World Champ
    Rossa Subscribed Owner

    Mar 31, 2006
    32,194
    East Central, FL
    Full Name:
    Wade O.
    Here?

    http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/members/4083.html
     
  10. MvT

    MvT F1 Rookie
    Silver Subscribed

    May 25, 2013
    3,961
    The Netherlands - NH
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    Tijn
    yes :) Depending on how bad the fusebox is I think I would go for this one too. It'l fit in your old fusebox without any additional boxes. One tip.. replace all your relays as well... bosch has crossreferences to new ones. Will cost you an additional 150 USD.
     
  11. Mondial 1985

    Mondial 1985 Formula Junior

    Jun 13, 2012
    342
    Greenville, SC
    Full Name:
    Mark Alan Day
    Yes. I'm using Guido's. What I thought about doing was to use the female ends he sent with the board, solder each one of them to a 1/4" - 1/2" length of # 12AWG solid copper wire, remove the male terminals from the old board and solder them to the other end. That way, I keep the original plastic "plugs". After I've inserted the "original" male terminals into the receptical, maybe fill it with RTV Silicon. Just a thought. Actually, I'd LOVE to see some photos of Guido's boards installed.
     
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  13. afterburner

    afterburner Formula 3
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    Jun 20, 2008
    2,343
    Hong Kong
    #10 afterburner, Dec 17, 2014
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
  14. theunissenguido

    theunissenguido Formula 3
    Silver Subscribed Owner

    Jan 21, 2004
    1,702
    Argent/Brasil
    Full Name:
    Guido
    #11 theunissenguido, Dec 17, 2014
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    hello Mark,

    The best and easiest way you see at the pictures from Urs, (with the white plugs and wires just passing trough).
    More soldering will give more resistants and chance to faillure.... Even soldering the wire ends to the female connectors will oxidise those connectors. Maybe just put some solder at the wire ends and press them on to the connector without soldering them.
    Just my opinion...
    When you put those female connectors in place, be carefull not to crease the male connector.
    They must point all in the same direction to let the white plugs going in more easier.
    This is the most difficult part...
    For those who are interested in my fuseboxes : I can only produce 4 to 5 boxes each year..it is just a hobby. There is a waitinglist...
    Urs, your fusebox instalation looks great !
    The pictures are my own instalation. I dont use the plastic cover since there is no moisture in my front. That alu sheet is pressed against the relays. It spread the warmth over all of them.

    Guido
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  15. MvT

    MvT F1 Rookie
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    May 25, 2013
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    Tijn
    Nifty feature that alu sheet :D
    What are those triangle markings on top?
     
  16. Mondial 1985

    Mondial 1985 Formula Junior

    Jun 13, 2012
    342
    Greenville, SC
    Full Name:
    Mark Alan Day
    It actually looks quite nice once it's mounted and wired.
     
  17. Mondial 1985

    Mondial 1985 Formula Junior

    Jun 13, 2012
    342
    Greenville, SC
    Full Name:
    Mark Alan Day
    Glad I've got mine.
     
  18. theunissenguido

    theunissenguido Formula 3
    Silver Subscribed Owner

    Jan 21, 2004
    1,702
    Argent/Brasil
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    Guido
    Its something from 6 years ago......I believe those marked the most important fuses for me that time.
    That alu sheet leads to temperature drop in each relay for about 20 degrees C = less stress for motherboard and wiring.

    Guido

    PS : tomorrow leaving to Buenos Aires after 7 weeks Rio. Internet connection is very poor over there.
    Have a splendid Christmas and happy New Year to all !
     
  19. afterburner

    afterburner Formula 3
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    Jun 20, 2008
    2,343
    Hong Kong
    The rewiring and modification of the plugs is very tedious. Buy a good wire insulator stripper!
    But also very good once it's done. The new plugs are larger and connect much better.
    Also, I found that several original female-to-wire connections (due to age and probably sharp bending behind the original cover) were in very bad condition. You wouldn't see that when using the original connectors on a plug-n-play board.

    Merry Christmas Guido and safe travels!
     
  20. theunissenguido

    theunissenguido Formula 3
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    Jan 21, 2004
    1,702
    Argent/Brasil
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    Guido
    Thanks, ...flight Rio to Sao Paulo whas delayed and we missed that to Buenos Aires. GOL, our air compagny, put us in a hotel close to the airport Guarulhas SP. Just waiting for the next connection at noon.

    Mark, I understand your concern to start cutting those connectors on the wires...once started there is no way back. But dont wurry, everything will be fine on the end. Just work patiently.

    Guido
     
  21. peacefulwarrior

    Aug 2, 2012
    16
    #18 peacefulwarrior, Aug 4, 2015
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Hi!

    I have an '85 Mondial QV with a replacement fuse/relay box and I am still having gremlins. I decided to replace all of the fuses (Please see attached picture). but I'm confused by some of the postings that call for different relays.

    So, my question is, did I have the relays right for the '85 QV and also does anyone know the correct fuses for the fuse box that is under the dashboard? (I'll try to get a photo of that too). Currently my emergency flashers are still not working (R) and I don't have any sort of AC or heater fan (the heater fan problem has been going on intermittently for some time now). Oh! and I also do not currently have working turn signals!

    I had hoped that some of these gremlins would go away with the new relays but the situation is pretty much unchanged...

    The manual I have that came with the car is for a 1980/87 3.2 Mondial but I also have the manual for the 3.2 Quatrovalle and layout of some of the key relays are different between the two manuals. I finally figured out that the lettering for the relays is also different. For example in my 1986/87 3.2 manual Relay "S" is the fuel injection delivery pump starting relay but on the QV manual "S" is for the AC relay!

    I downloaded the following replacement relay table:

    The following is from my Mondial 8 wiring diagram manual -
    Relays
    b - Relay for windshiled wiper (marelli Tel. 12C/1)
    c - Relay for RH head lamp lifint motor
    d - Relay for electro-fan of AC condnesor (BOSCH 0332014113)
    e - Relay for high/low wiper speed (BOSCH 0332204101)
    f - Relay for high beam headlamps (BOSCH 0332015006)
    g - Rleay for lights and fog lights
    h - Relay for window motors (BOSCH 0332014113)
    i - Fuel injection delivery pump starting relay
    l - Relay for high/low wiper (BOSCH 0332204101)
    m - Relay for head-lamps lifitn gmotor (BOSCH 0332204101)
    n - Relay for LH head lamps lifting motor (BOSCH 0332204101)
    o - Relay for electro fan of water radiator
    p -
    q - Relay for low beams (BOSCH 0332015006)
    r - Relay for flashing (BOSCH 0332104101)
    s - Relay for Air Conditioning operation
    t - Relay for fuel pump (BOSCH 0332014113)

    The letters seem to map to the QV manual and not the 1986 manual but what confused me about this list is f - Relay for high beam headlamps (BOSCH 0332015006) since on everything else this seems to be 0332014113.

    Ok, so I realize I'm rambling...

    I would like help with the following...

    1) any idea how to get my flashers working?
    2) any idea why my turn signals are still not working
    3) do I have correct relay's for AC? are there additional AC related relays under the dash?

    Thanks!

    Peter
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  22. afterburner

    afterburner Formula 3
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    #19 afterburner, Aug 4, 2015
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
  23. peacefulwarrior

    Aug 2, 2012
    16
    Awesome!! Thanks!
     
  24. peacefulwarrior

    Aug 2, 2012
    16
    #21 peacefulwarrior, Aug 6, 2015
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Ok, so if I'm understanding you correctly the relay for the turn signals and hazards is by itself up under the dashboard. I'll look for it today.

    The attached picture is of a relay that used to be plugged into the block of 3 that you pictured that has to do with the AC Motor clutch and fan. My heater/AC fan and ac itself are still not working but do randomly come on every once in a while. If you notice from the photo someone very intentionally cut the contact out for 87. I'm not sure exactly which position this relay was in but I think it was in the leftmost location of the 3 that are inside the car above the shift console. Does anyone have any idea why this relay could have been modified?

    I tried putting 3 brand new relays (like you pictured) into the block of 3 but nothing changed - fan didn't start working etc.

    Thanks!

    Peter
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  25. afterburner

    afterburner Formula 3
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  26. afterburner

    afterburner Formula 3
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    Jun 20, 2008
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    Yes.

    The entire HVAC is powered by 1 wire from the fuseboard via fuse 18 and relay s.
    When you press the AC or AE or the Defrost push, you ground the system and it starts working.
    I repeat, there is one wire going from the fuseboard to the HVAC.

    If your entire system comes on and goes off (heater/ac/fan) then my guess is that you have a problem with that wire, or grounding via the push button unit.

    Before you try to fix the fan, make sure your system has power.
    By the way, the fan pot has a 1A fuse, and the fan relay overrides the power transistor on full power position.
     
  27. peacefulwarrior

    Aug 2, 2012
    16
    #24 peacefulwarrior, Aug 7, 2015
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    I was able to finally get to the flasher relay! I had to take the bottom front of the dashboard off, undo the carpet and even the door jam!

    So... how/where do get a replacement unit? it says TA AMEC 277 12V66W x2 DOT

    I"ve also included a photo

    Obviously I do some searching here too I'm assuming my auto parts store won't have this!

    Thanks!

    Peter
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  28. afterburner

    afterburner Formula 3
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    #25 afterburner, Aug 8, 2015
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Peter

    Not sure if your relay can take 2x66W, which would be sufficient.
    You have 4X21W in the back plus 2x21W in the front plus 2X4W in the side repeaters = 134W under hazard function. Below what is in mine, it is a standard blinker relay. With the diagram you can identify the correct wiring if in doubt. 31 is the black ground wire. 49 is the brown 12V power wire (only under ignition on) and 49a is black/white, the blinking output to the lamps.
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