Buy

Heavy shifting

Discussion in '308/328' started by robertcope, Jul 20, 2021.

  1. robertcope

    robertcope Rookie
    Silver Subscribed

    May 3, 2021
    26
    Houston, TX
    Full Name:
    Robert B. Cope
    Recently purchased a 308... car is overall pretty good, but shifting is a bit tough. My gut says it may be a bushing or alignment issue. Not sure if anyone can give me much insight from a video, but this was taken with the car off, clutch in... hard to tell, but it does more muscle than I think is right to get it in gear, it's also not super consistent, sometimes it goes right in.



    I plan to put some Red Line fluid in there, but I don't think that's going to help it in this case.
     
  2. To remove this ad click here.

  3. lm2504me

    lm2504me Formula Junior
    Silver Subscribed

    Aug 26, 2004
    844
    Nipomo, CA
    Full Name:
    Richard
    Stationary vs moving
    Do you still get the same shifting resistance?
     
    tomberlin likes this.
  4. robertcope

    robertcope Rookie
    Silver Subscribed

    May 3, 2021
    26
    Houston, TX
    Full Name:
    Robert B. Cope
    Yes, exactly, which is why I suspect bushings or adjustment.
     
  5. ginoBBi512

    ginoBBi512 Formula Junior
    Silver Subscribed

    Oct 9, 2016
    916
    Are you using fresh synthetic gear oil ? That always helps .

    Thank you
     
  6. robertcope

    robertcope Rookie
    Silver Subscribed

    May 3, 2021
    26
    Houston, TX
    Full Name:
    Robert B. Cope
    Not yet... have a load of Red Line 75W-90 NS ready to go in, but haven't gotten there yet. Honestly not sure the oil matters much when the car is off, though.

    This thread had a great photo that explained perfectly how the shifting mechanism works. It will be useful for adjusting things, although I'll probably end up pulling the pad just to see what's in there.

    [​IMG]
     
  7. To remove this ad click here.

  8. Alex308qv

    Alex308qv Formula Junior

    Jul 1, 2016
    288
    PA
    Full Name:
    Alex
    It could be a combination of things, and if you’re not sure the shift mechanism has ever been worked on, you might consider a complete rehab including rebuilding the shift box, new bushings in the shaft, new seals in the block, and a shift fork alignment. All on Ferrari chat.
     
    robertcope likes this.
  9. robertcope

    robertcope Rookie
    Silver Subscribed

    May 3, 2021
    26
    Houston, TX
    Full Name:
    Robert B. Cope
    Yeah, definitely the direction I am leaning at this point. Lots of good material here, for sure.
     
  10. ginoBBi512

    ginoBBi512 Formula Junior
    Silver Subscribed

    Oct 9, 2016
    916
    I would not worry about the feel when the car is off, once you have the new oil in, see if shifting improves, thats the same oil I have in my 328 , remember , these cars shift and run the best when both motor and gearbox oil is about 270 degrees, they love to run at higher temps, and the water temp should stay at about 180 - 195 degrees in my experience. My car runs on the cooler side , even when the motor and gear oil are up to optimum operating temps. My cooling system works fantastic . My motor has 104,000 miles .

    Thank you
     
    tomberlin likes this.
  11. robertcope

    robertcope Rookie
    Silver Subscribed

    May 3, 2021
    26
    Houston, TX
    Full Name:
    Robert B. Cope
    Love hearing these high mileage motor stories. That's one thing that freaks me out a bit about these cars. I'm used to Japanese cars that go hundreds of thousands of miles on an engine, while spinning to eight or nine thousand RPM... it's weird to hear people talk about needing engine work at 40K miles. But... this is just my guess... a lot of that is because they don't get driven, which will not be a problem for my car.
     
  12. To remove this ad click here.

  13. lm2504me

    lm2504me Formula Junior
    Silver Subscribed

    Aug 26, 2004
    844
    Nipomo, CA
    Full Name:
    Richard
    I drive my 308 every weekend. At 23k miles and climbing!
     
    robertcope likes this.
  14. GordonC

    GordonC F1 Rookie
    Rossa Subscribed Owner

    Aug 28, 2005
    3,893
    Calgary, AB, Canada
    Full Name:
    Gordon

    The preferred choice is Redline MTL. 75W90 or a cocktail of 3 litres 75W90, 1 litre 75W90NS was popular several years ago, but Rifledriver (pro Ferrari mechanic and 328 owner) started recommending straight MTL instead. I'm one of many who tried the cocktail and then switched to MTL, and found the MTL provides easier shifting.

    (Gino, 270 degrees??!! :eek: WAY too hot for engine or transmission oils, that's about the upper limit on them - in normal driving you should only be seeing around 210 or 220 degrees. I'd suspect a problem with gauge or sender, possibly poor grounds)

    Regards,
    Gordon
     
  15. robertcope

    robertcope Rookie
    Silver Subscribed

    May 3, 2021
    26
    Houston, TX
    Full Name:
    Robert B. Cope
    Interesting. Well, 75W-90 NS is what I have, so it's what I'm going to try. It's also what Red Line recommends. Usually what I do with a new car is start with something, then try MTL, then try MT-85, etc until I get the result I'm looking for. We're lucky to have Red Line producing a nice range of fluids for us to try!
     
  16. GordonC

    GordonC F1 Rookie
    Rossa Subscribed Owner

    Aug 28, 2005
    3,893
    Calgary, AB, Canada
    Full Name:
    Gordon
    Honestly - Redline is wrong. The NS version has additives for limited slip differentials - and yes, there's a LSD sharing the transmission oil, but a 308 transmission/diff unit doesn't need the additive. Because the transverse gearbox has no hypoid gears, it doesn't need extreme pressure additives found in GL5 oils. Regular 75W90 would be better, but MTL is the ideal Redline fluid. Lots of us have tried both and found the MTL a significant improvement, as Brian suggested. If you actually want to improve your shifting, skip the 75W90, save it for another car and get MTL. Your call, of course!
     
    waymar, mike996 and robertcope like this.
  17. mike996

    mike996 F1 Veteran

    Jun 14, 2008
    5,976
    TX//Mexico/UK
    Full Name:
    Mike 996
    "75W-90 NS is what I have, so it's what I'm going to try."

    DO NOT waste your time installing the NS. This is an experiment I have done on several occasions - and did exactly what you are planning to do. Leave the NS on the shelf or donate it to a needy person/the local recycling center!! Bite the bullet and buy MTL. Otherwise you will have the opportunity to drain the NS and install the MTL in a few weeks when you discover little/no improvement.
     
    MFlanagan, 308 milano and GordonC like this.
  18. Freddie328

    Freddie328 Karting

    Jul 29, 2013
    237
    Herts, UK
    Full Name:
    Richard
    I completely agree with the previous posts re MTL v NS.
    A cocktail of MTL and NS did not work as well as 100% MTL with my 328.
    And if you put NS in it will take more than one oil change to get it all completely out.......
     
  19. mwr4440

    mwr4440 Four Time F1 World Champ
    Rossa Subscribed

    Jun 8, 2007
    44,680
    Bavaria, The 'Other' Germany
    Full Name:
    Mark W.R.
    #16 mwr4440, Jul 21, 2021
    Last edited: Jul 21, 2021
    A 308 does normally require a bit more effort to shift than other cars I have driven, but not as much as depicted in the video.

    Sagging motor mounts have also been reported to cause difficult shifting as the oil and gear box holes and shift shaft are no longer in the 'same plain.'

    Check that after you fixed all the rest and if it still functions poorly.

    Be aware, changing out the silent blocks in the shift rod and changing the seals in the oil and tyranny boxes is not H A R D per sa, but it is much more involved than at first blush. It is a good weekend long job unless you have done it on this car before.

    If you already have the transmission pan off, leave it off. You will probably have to remove it anyway to line everything back up after you reinstall the newly re-bushinged shift shaft.
     
    robertcope likes this.
  20. Alex308qv

    Alex308qv Formula Junior

    Jul 1, 2016
    288
    PA
    Full Name:
    Alex
    Good point mwr4440. FChat describes ways to check for worn mounts. One more thing to check (which turned out to be my main issue) is a worn shaft bore at the shifter box. I had my box welded and rebored. When everything was apart I found the root cause was a bent shift rod (which, judging from the location of the kink, was probably from new) that put odd stresses on the mechanism. Before removing the console, a quick way do diagnose issues at the front (front shaft bushing and/or box) is to grab the shaft under the car where it enters the cabin and see if it moves around and makes any clunking noises.
     
    robertcope likes this.
  21. kcabpilot

    kcabpilot Formula 3

    Apr 17, 2014
    1,237
    California SF area
    Full Name:
    Paul
    If it turns out to be an alignment issue take my advice and drop the cover because it is nearly impossible to do blind. I say "nearly" because I did manage to do it but my lord it took me about three days! It's very precise and the smallest adjustment can give you complete wtf? results that will have you tearing your hair out.
     
    Brian Harper and BLACK HORSE like this.
  22. ginoBBi512

    ginoBBi512 Formula Junior
    Silver Subscribed

    Oct 9, 2016
    916

    good morning Sir, upper limit is what I meant, referring to 90 degree heat and aggressive driving, my oil temp gets to about 270, its been a long time since Ive been out driving with those parameters , but if my memory serves me correctly, my 328 was shifting like butter, with my water temp at about 195, my motor is actually running cooler these days, had some hoses replaced behind the manifold, I will keep an eye on the oil temp on my next hot so cal day drive , while keeping the revs up , thank you for the info as always.

    Thank you
     
  23. ginoBBi512

    ginoBBi512 Formula Junior
    Silver Subscribed

    Oct 9, 2016
    916
    When I replaced my motor mounts, the cars handling improved, I agree with fact that it will greatly improve your gearshift mechanism, mine was fine before the new mounts, once replaced, I did notice an improvement, especially when cold. Anyhow, I think its a great improvement all around to replace your motor mounts no matter what , and while your at it, replace the upper stabilizer rod bushings as well , the one thats over the rear part of the engine , I dont remember exactly what its called, you cant miss it , its right in front of you when you prop up the engine lid.

    Thank you
     
  24. ginoBBi512

    ginoBBi512 Formula Junior
    Silver Subscribed

    Oct 9, 2016
    916
     
  25. st@ven

    st@ven F1 Rookie
    Silver Subscribed

    Aug 4, 2008
    3,099
    Netherlands
    Full Name:
    Steven
    I would just start with the gearshift box. I had a silmilar heavy shiftibg fixed by just taking the box apart, removed all the dust and rubbish accumulated there for probably 40 years, regreased everything and put it back together. Easy job and it changed shifting from a bodybuilders exercise into a gearshift-made-for- women experience
     
  26. BLACK HORSE

    BLACK HORSE Formula 3
    Silver Subscribed

    Feb 11, 2004
    1,778
    Livermore, CA
    Full Name:
    Rob L.
    Been there, done that!!!! Yep, lost first gear!
     
  27. Freddie328

    Freddie328 Karting

    Jul 29, 2013
    237
    Herts, UK
    Full Name:
    Richard
    Perhaps the previous owner had recently installed X ring shift shaft seals?
    This causes a stiffer than standard gearshift until they are well bedded in.
    Worth asking them the question....
     
  28. Lawrence Coppari

    Lawrence Coppari Formula 3

    Apr 29, 2002
    1,984
    Kingsport, TN
    Full Name:
    Lawrence A. Coppari
    My X shift seals took about 500 miles to loosen up.
     

Share This Page