Installing the Pertronix MR-183

You are only using advance in one of the distributors. This distr have two pick ups, one for each bank. The advance on the other distr is therefore not used. The caps used are the normal four tower giving the system an original look. It is a really smart system. Same approach can be used with Crane Cam systems like dino bob just did.

/Pero

 

Got it, both pickups are in the one dizzy and work off same advance plate.

Doug

 

Yes. Really smart system. Converts two distributor system to a one distributor system, but with a two distr look. Now it is getting difficult so I think I stop here.

/Pero

 

Jeff if it not to much, I would appreciate the repost of the instructions or thread link - thanks![/QUOTE]

Here is a link to my post last year. If you look there you'll find the instructions. Good luck!

http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/showthread.php?t=328811&highlight=instructions

 

Hey Jeff,

What is the orientation of the converted distributor in the photo ? There is a notch near the top on the flange..Is that the position for #1 cyl ? which modules go to which coils ? Red mark vs Green marked one...Also I presume the black plastic trigger is mounted right ontop of the points cam followed by the circlip is that correct ?
Thanks,
Tom

 

Hi Tom,

It's been a few months, so bear with me.


On the first, as to orientation, I installed the Pertronix in the front distributor. On that one the spark plug wires exit the cap toward the front of the car. The notch you refer to I believe is pointing toward the front of the car, at about the 9 o'clock position, when installed. This is the general orientation of the distributor as when I removed it, the Pertronix install didn't change anything in this regard.

Steve Magnusson had a post which helped me get the proper pickup wired to the proper bank. If I remember correctly, the rotor turns clockwise and as it comes around to the two Pertronix units, the first one runs the rear bank (1-4), and the next one, the front bank (5-8). The first one is the unit I marked with red, and the second one I marked with green. (The Pertronix instructions don't specify this above information, leaving it to trial and error- they say if it runs terribly or won't start, you've got the wrong pickups to the banks, so switch the wires.)

And yes to your final question. The black pickup assembly slides, with some difficulty, down the rotor shaft and over the points cam part of the shaft enough to reinstall that circlip.

I think that is it. I posted a couple more photos that may help answer your questions.

Did you decide to try to mount both pickups on one plate yourself, or return the dual distributor unit?

Jeff
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Hey Jeff,
Thanks for the additional info and pics. I did in fact go ahead with mounting both modules on one plate..Thanks to Steve M's number crunching and providing me with the angular measurement for which to locate and mount the second module I was able to proceede.

I made up an arbor to allow me to set up the plate in a milling machine and drill the holes precisely 135 degrees from the center of the other module..By comparing your photos to my finished product I can say it looks correct and now I just need to install and try it out..

I'll try and get it done this weekend..I may hit you guy's up with more questions when It comes to wiring up the system..I have a resistor but there seems to be conflicting statements whether or not one needs to go through a resistor.
I bought 2 new Flame thrower II low resistance coils as well.. the instructions show different wiring schemes..I dont have much of a clue which one to follow lol
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At first, I didn't know where you were located, but when looking at your second photo, I knew you were from Canada by the use of Robertson screws to hold down the second pick-up to the mounting plate...

Back on topic, good job on the quest to locate the second pick-up through a milling machine. It's too bad you didn't get the MR-183 unit as it already has it in place and perfectly located (I use this system on my GT4 now. So much easier than the CraneCams XR700 - will never go back to it).

FWIW I'm using the Bosch Blue coils so it has internal resistance. Looking at the full-line Pertronix catalogue, the Flame-Thrower II coils seem to be designed for use with their Ignitor II ignition systems, the regular Flame-Thrower coils being best for the regular Ignitor systems (which it seems you have based on your photo). Maybe easier just to go back where you got these coils and exchange them for the regular Flame-Throwers for an easier installation...

 

...Ooops, my bad! It looks like you are using the Ignitor II system, so the Flame-Thrower II coils are the right coils.

 

Lol,

Crazy Canucks eh Pete...Using screws.... Yes I drilled and tapped the plate and added screws vs press in the studs as per the factory..40 TPI gave plenty of thread engagement in the plate.

I have the flame thrower II coils..unfortunately I havnt had time to install the system yet cause I'm in the process of moving.... might be a few weeks till i can get back to it..
Cant drive the car right now anyways...salt and slush untill the end of April sucks !

Regards,
Tom

 

Sorry, I don't mean to rub it in but you need to get out here to BC... We're expecting 20 degrees on Sunday (that's 68 Farenheit ). If it's any consolation I'm working on my car right now as well, so it's killing me more that it isn't ready and we're having this awesome weather...

 

Oh let me tell you Pete, I ask myself what the hell am i doing living in Manitoba after all these years when I could be living there and enjoying not only the longer seasons for all hobbies etc. but the beauty of BC over all...Im jealous of you people out there...lol
Get your car going cause life is short..

Tom

 

Hey Tom,

When you get your Ferrari running, try your timing light on the front bank, and then the rear bank, and let us know how they compare. I ended up making little slots in one pickup up so I could move it a tiny bit to make them synch up. I just did it by trial and error and it took just a couple minute adjustments and it was done.

Despite the foregoing, I doubt I ever go back to points and condensors- especially in a car that has so many!

Thanks, Jeff

 

Hey Jeff.
Im relocating at the moment so I wont be able to install the system untill i get possesion of the house and my nice new garage lol However I did note the fact that you slotted the one module in your previous post and when i do finally put the timing light to it and I have a difference then i will do the same...A damn good idea indeed.

Im eager to get the job done but on the otherhand we got 3 feet of snow on the ground and It's still snowing !! be a ways off till I can drive the car anyways..
I'll keep you guy's posted
Take care
Tom

 

I've just finish the installation a MR-183 after rebuilding my distributors to get the curves back to factory standard. Bought the MR-183 from board member Mark456M, thanks for the great service and quick delivery!

Installation was quite easy and straightforward. The distance between the two Ignitors where 49º instead of 45º on my MR-183, so slotted the mounting holes of one pickup using a file and adjusted to 45º. Added a connector so when installing another MR-183 in the second distributor i can easily switch over to that one as fallback if anything should fail.
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Adrian, That is great thinking on the installation of a backup unit. I have heard of a Pertronix failing before, maybe heat related?
Nicely done.
Jeff

 

I don't think it will break any time soon but i like to be on the safe side, especially with the otherwise unused space in the second distributor

Some notes which might be helpful for anyone trying to install an MR-183 in his double dist GT4:

• The Ignitor unit which is installed approximately in place of the factory contact set for the retardation of the ignition (R2, emission control setup) now drives the coil for the bank where the distributor with the MR-183 unit is installed. The Ignitor in place of the main contact set (R1) drives the second coil (other bank).
• On my GT4, the MR-183 Ignitors were about 10º retarded compared to the original points installation in the converted distributor, so had to shift the dog drive plate of the distributor by 2mm CCW to be able to set the engine at idle to 16º advance (EU engine setup). The actual difference depends on your current position of the points setup, you might be lucky and the difference is so small that you don't need to touch the dog drive plate.

As expected, my GT4 runs now noticeably smoother with the single advance curve for both banks.

 

Finally getting time to do the upgrade, picked up the Pertronix parts and coils. I looked over the caps and rotors seems to be fine, but i think i read somewhere that you have to upgrade the spark plug wires or it won't run...is this true?

The wiring looks simple, but i also have what looks like a ballast and an additional red/black wire coming from the main harness, what am i to do with those two wires..cap them off?

Thanks for your help

 

Do you have a drawing of the plate with all of it's mounting locations. Is so can you post it or send me a PM. I have an extra set of pertronix's units and would like to install them as a backup in my other dizzy.

 

You don't really need upgraded wires, but for the Ignitor II and III you should avoid using straight copper wire, spiral wound and carbon core wires are fine though.

You only need a ballast resistor for a Ignitor I setup with an ignition coil having less than 3 ohm resistance. The red wire could be the from the ignition start relais (there should be two of them, and a yellow one from the ignition lock/12V), the black one is probably ground.

 

You only need a ballast resistor for a Ignitor I setup with an ignition coil having less than 3 ohm resistance. The red wire could be the from the ignition start relais (there should be two of them, and a yellow one from the ignition lock/12V), the black one is probably ground.[/QUOTE]

I have the Ignitor II electronic ignition with Flame-Thrower II low resistance 0.6 ohm coils (do i need to use the ballast resistors?)

2 reds wires from relay: attach each one to + positive coil terminal
1 yellow (plus jumper) wire: 12 volts ignition "on" attached to both + positive coil terminals
1 Brown red strip wire: attached to one - negative coil terminal

coil 1
Ignitor II red to + coil
Ignitor II black to - coil
Wire grounding distributor housing to - coil terminal

coil 2
Ignitor II red to + coil
Ignitor II black to - coil
Wire grounding distributor housing to - coil terminal

Disconnect microswitch (77 US model): Not used
2nd forward distributor: leave points installed and disconnect and cap off leads.
Clean and lubricate distributor mechanical advance where the ignitor II lives.

I'm not sure about added a ground wire from the distributor housing to the negative side of each coil?

 

No ballasts required with the Ignitor II. Wiring looks fine except ground wire from dist housing to coil -, please remove before applying power. The Ignitor black wire (and the brown tach wire) should be the only wire going to coil -.
I don't think you actually need the two red wires from the relay to the coils with the new setup, the yellow wire should be sufficient.

Ready for a test drive as it looks like

 

did as described and I'm not getting any spark. So i did a measurement, with key on i have 12 volts on both sides of the coil (+=+, -=+). From what i understand when the magnet comes in contact with the switch it will change the polarity from (-=+ to -=-) which in returns creates a spark. Only thing that happening is the voltage drops to 9 plus volts and both terminals remain positive. Is there any other test i can perform to determine the problem? The starter is turning over like a champ! Brought #1 to TDC, all looks in an alignment. But this doesn't explain why the coils negative side remains positive. Coils still have 0.8 resistance. Rotor and magnet are spinning freely. Whats next? How do i test the ignitors? Thanks for your help!

 

Dave,

It sounds like you might have your wiring crossed up. Let me post the schematic for you in case you don't have it.

Also, a good way to verify that the right things are happening in the distributor is to hold a 12v test lamp on the negative terminal of the coil. It should wink on and off as the engine is turned over with the starter.

Good luck with it. Jeff
View attachment Ferrari.308.PertronixMR183.instructions.2.pdf

 

Thanks Jeff, tried the lamp trick, but only went slightly dim also tried a separate power supply in case the voltage was to low. I think the unit is defective hard to believe both ignitors aren't working. Wiring is just about plug and play. I bought this stuff last year and the pertronix document has 30 month warranty...guess i call them on tuesday.