Leiters is OUT ! End of the V12?

Are they going to put force generators in there to give it some rumble along with the speakers? Last time I integrated that system it was $150k per unit.

 

If people had a clear vision for the brand, I'll tell you where it could have gone.
You spent the Roma in EV to make a competitor of the Taycan, replacing the SF 90 also with 2000 hp since that is what its customers expect, as well as the Purosangue (rather than wasting co2 credit with a V12).
And with the co2 credits earned on these ranges, you produced a 296 range in full NA, as well as the replacement of the 812, while rapidly declining them in different versions (spider coupe, special and GT2 for the V8 range) and coupe, gts, competizione version for the 167), with a V 12 declination in the central rear engine at the top of the ranges.
And in this case, you aligned yourself with the co2 objectives while maintaining a strong identity for the brand.
Doing clean on all ranges will lead them into the wall ...
but , you still have to have a little Ferrari culture to achieve it by making the product plan !

 

You cannot pass smog tests in California for many F cars with carbs.

https://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/threads/smogging-308-carbourated.122785/page-2

 

To a previous post, I don't think Ferrari's board makeup is a great foreshadow of excellence in governing. Ferrari has always been slow to the party and will just follow the market with high margin cars in relatively low numbers driven by any technology under the hood. Their secret is purely marketing and its not a secret.

 

Polaroid is the pre-eminent self-developing film camera. Best in the business, always will be...

Exactly right. I will miss the V8 and V12 era, but for those of us who don't want a soul-less appliance on wheels Ferrari will always command a premium and will do this right, The biggest downside of Ferrari ownership now is the service/repair costs that turn owners into odometer slaves: Who wants a 30,000-mile Ferrari? EVs have the potential to be "forever" cars, with no expensive rebuilds, near perfect reliability, etc. At some point, those of us who grew up with big internal combustion engines won't be buying new cars (I say this as one who is solidly middle-aged... love my Porsche 964 but I'm no longer planning for an eight-car garage in a future home.) Ferrari needs to move forward, IMHO.

I'd be very interested in seeing Ferrari reinvent itself and develop EVs that dominate motorsports. We've left carburetors, leaded gasoline, and pedal-operated clutches in the history books, so I think this doable. Otherwise Porsche, Audi and even Tesla are simply going to leave Ferrari in their dust. The Taycan is nice, but Ferrari can own the aspirational sports EV market.

 

Here is something that I held back from stating in regards to EV and “forever” cars: These positions and assumptions of the near perfect reliability, cost of ownership, and low maintenance are naive. Part obsolescence is real and is very expensive to manage. Redesigns are ongoing. Electrical issues are extremely problematic and very difficult to diagnose. I had a single unit (one of over 40 systems) on a vehicle that had over 1500 fault codes. I could diagnose faults and probability of identification in the 99% range. I turned over the fault code subset (about 200 pages) and how to correct the fault and the customer about crapped a turd because there was no way the maintainers could use it. They wanted no more than 30 codes and they would use processes to find the fault. Why? Because you cannot have engineers maintaining the equipment. This is because the hourly maintenance rate would be $250 an hour. And part replacements are and will continue to be extremely costly. The chips used on rev 1 of the board are possibly not on board rev 7, 5 years later. Therefore, new boards, another $1500. This revision board doesn’t work well with that revision board, so need to upgrade the other boards also. Everyone who uses computers should understand this.

I have dealt with all of these items on other platforms that had almost unlimited money and the cost of operation over its life cycle is astounding. I can’t go into further detail, but you can’t go off the JD Power new purchase survey, the 10 year survey will determine the real costs.

Also, where do we recycle the lithium batteries again? Out of sight, out of mind…

 

I don't believe this EV hype.
There are 1 billion ICE passenger cars in the world. There is a huge logistics, parts, production, services and cultural chain around it. It is a technology that has been receiving investments for over 120 years.
There is no way, in ~10 years, to replace this entire consolidated universe with quality, forcing EV cars on people.
On top of that, producing all that extra electricity is highly polluting.
EV has to be niche, period. The ICE and EV have to coexist. Even if it's 50%-50%.
There's the Apple Watch, and there's Patek. Each in its square.
What is happening is government madness, and automakers are embarking on this madness, hiring executives who should be at computer companies. Automakers are putting their entire market strength at high risk.
A Ferrari without an engine, with a battery, loses its raison d'etre. It's like a digital Patek.
"Almost total" electrification will make the brand lose value over the years.

 

+100
Ferrari cars are about pleasure.
Comparing electric cars with Ferrari V12 is like comparing a McDonald’s with a three stars Michelin restaurant.

 

Re Polaroid, innovation made its core competency obsolete. Ferrari likely recognizes that it could be facing a similar situation.

The internal combustion engine in automobiles is fundamentally a 19th century technology, and was mainstreamed because Rockefeller and Standard Oil actively campaigned against other modes of transport. They needed to create a market for gasoline. The result was that one technology advocated by a monopolist became the norm. It was not a case of unfettered competition yielding ICE as the winner.

Governments now are reacting to the effects of ICE pollutants on populations. I remember when lead and then MTBE were removed from gasoline because they were poisoning us, and asbestos was removed from brake linings. This was a good thing. I didn't like paying more for unleaded, but I also didn't like poisoning neghbors and their kids. I'm not advocating for government-engineered cars. However, there are reasons to move beyond the 1880s conception of the automobile. We have public roads, so government influence on automobiles isn't particularly new.

As far as replacement parts, we have this issue now, especially with Ferrari and its unobtainium bits -- I faced this with my 328, and even Porsche has trouble with some VDO gauge components and things like Sportomatic gearboxes. No doubt we'll see it with future vehicles as well. And yes, batteries are expensive, but Ferrari V12 rebuilds are also costly. Battery technology will improve over time, and I expect that the battery that goes into a Taycan in 5 or 10 years will be different.

Again, I'm glad we had these decades with ICE, but I'm open to what comes next. Ferrari should assess how it can differentiate itself when engines are no longer a competitive advantage. Because I think the writing is on the wall, no matter what we post here.

 

Nicely stated.
Zero interest in a $60K digital Patek, or a Patek with a beautiful dial yet quartz/battery. If all watches were forced to be quartz Patek would close up overnight.
Zero interest in an EV Ferrari. If I am forced to drive a silent EV and I want luxury and distinguish myself? Rolls Royce is where I’d go. Their image is already about silent stately wafting down the road. That is NOT Ferrari.

 

Do you think plans for F167 engine will be reshuffled? If so, to what (bad) extent do you think it would be?

 

Usually once in a generation someone comes up with idea that disrupts the statue quo. Recently much of that has been in the digital domain but just as likely someone will come up with an idea that knocks the digital giants on their rears. That may be happening with automobiles ( is it Tesla?- still too early to tell) but at some point some a human or perhaps with the aid of AI- will come up with a car propulsion method which makes batteries in cars old tech. It may be nuclear fusion units utilizing meatballs(or vegan bean balls)or a cheap road induction system that charges your vehicles hypercapacitor wirelessly while you have fun driving the car at 10/10ths on a back road aided by the supercomputers monitoring the car and road that is so seamless, you think you are Michael Schumacher.
No it’s not a V12,8,6 turbo, hybrid but if the car has that “swoosh “ (see Peter Egan-Road and Track)factor that fun cars have I take but will still enjoy the occasional drive in my outdated polluting noisy Ferrari.


Sent from my iPhone using FerrariChat

 

We have to wait until the end of January to have a clear vision.
I do not think that V 12 is at the heart of the concerns of the new management ...
But the project is very, very advanced

 

Thank you, let us cross fingers!

 

Oh my God, please!
They can’t be that stupid!

 

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/santander-returns-to-f1-in-2022-with-ferrari/6946383/

The article says "We look forward partnering with them to deliver our key objective of becoming carbon neutral by 2030".

Certainly this news has something to do with the sudden departure of Leiters and the others, and the change in command.
Possibly Santander required "green" planning to inject a lot of money into the company.
I repeat: the EV industry (producing the extra electricity as well as the batteries themselves) is more polluting than ICE cars. There is extensive study around this.
That's why climate change accelerated so much after the rise of smartphones and other digital items (extra electricity to charge billions of cell phones daily). Today, heavy investments are made in useless technology, the buttons have become screens. There is electricity and batteries for that. And that pollutes.
The new "digital world" is highly polluting, and they are purposefully blaming ICE cars unfairly. Demagogy...
A car with GPF pollutes 90% less than one 10 years ago. That alone is enough.

 

Regardless of what one’s views are about CO2, as an automotive enthusiast, I simply ask one question.

dollar for dollar is a stock ICE car quicker or electric?

dare I say Enzo would have asked the same question and gone with the solution that wins races in the future. (Not yesteryears)

 

I would think that would depend on the type of race. One would have to look at whether electric cars would race with ICE cars in races, and if they did, how long would the race be? This would play heavily into the outcome. Just because electric cars are faster and have more torque in general doesn’t mean you can sustain that or easily and quickly replace the batteries for longer races. We may reach a point where these shortcomings are fixed, but probably not soon. I think it would be pretty interesting to see combined races though!

 

Good point! Hence I specifically said, "in the future." (not yesteryears)

I would point you to the current world record holder of the Nurburgring.

Kind regards.

 

Dollar for dollar American V8s were winning races and fortunately Enzo stuck with expensive V12s

 

It's not what Pierro says. Are you saying you know more than Ferrari's own son about his father?

Honest question.

Okay if you do, just hope you don't take offense if I trust Ferrari's own son more than some random person on the interwebs.