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Martin Brundle just unleashed on F1

Discussion in 'F1' started by Bas Jaski, May 14, 2019 at 5:02 AM.

  1. TonyL

    TonyL Formula 3

    Sep 27, 2007
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    When can somebody actually remember the last time they jumped out of their seat watching a F1 race, a few occasions I reckon but only one I can vividly recall - Villeneuve and Arnoux. I still watch it on Youtube!

    Look at the farce of DRS, does it improve the show. Not in my book.

    Most of the TWG that pioneered this stupidity did it for self gain. ie to gain an advantage.
     
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  2. JOEA2

    JOEA2 Formula Junior
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    The first lap of every race. After that boring!

    Joe
     
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  3. 375+

    375+ F1 Veteran
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    I watched it live on a large screen TV in a bar with a bunch of redneck NASCAR fans. Everybody in the joint was standing and yelling, great times.
     
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  4. Bas Jaski

    Bas Jaski Two Time F1 World Champ

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    The whole DRS thing...it's so daft. They genuinely believe more overtakes = excitement. Overtaking isn't exciting it it's easy. The day they introduced DRS is the day real overtaking nearly completely died. Only very rarely do we see moves in non DRS zones, mainly courtesy of Ricciardo and Verstappen. The rest of the overtakes, even when presented with the opportunity to do it earlier, tends to happen for a driver to ''wisen up'', and get the perfect line up on the straight, open the wing, and breeze passed. Zzz. That's not racing.

    Even worse, FIA has steadily introduced it to lower categories. Even Formula 3 has it now! The FIA are teaching these kids to overtake like simpletons now!

    I weep for the future. Thanks Jean. You imbecile.
     
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  5. Gatorrari

    Gatorrari F1 World Champ
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    Sounds like a Lotus 25!
    [​IMG]
     
  6. Korr

    Korr F1 World Champ
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    Renault already has those, except with turbos.
     
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  7. G. Pepper

    G. Pepper F1 World Champ
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    Such a pure and beautiful car.
     
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  8. william

    william F1 World Champ

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    Yep, 200hp at most.
     
  9. furoni

    furoni F1 Veteran

    Jun 6, 2011
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    put 1000hp in that car and that would be AWSOME!!!! :)
     
  10. william

    william F1 World Champ

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    It would have no grip whatsoever !
     
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  11. furoni

    furoni F1 Veteran

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    That's the whole idea!!!
     
  12. Bas Jaski

    Bas Jaski Two Time F1 World Champ

    Mar 24, 2008
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    No downforce whilst of course provides much purer racing, is not the way to go.

    Target something similar to the indycar 2019 aero package (I'll repeat myself: NOT a spec package! just parameters). They're not pretty and I think F1 can do a better job. So long it works no one cares much I'd say. Add a form of venturi tunnel to win some extra downforce, it's important that F1 doesn't become too slow.

    We can't force a budget cap, as it'll be too easy to cheat anyways. But we can force where money is (and isn't) spend:

    The simpler aero and inability to just stick bits on anywhere they like will be prohibited. The wings will be much simpler. This saves tens of millions a year by itself, if and towards the 100m for the richest teams.

    Much cheaper engines, and more exciting.

    Finally, those teams with an enormous base at the track but an even larger one at their home base analyzing every possible strategy (Ferrari's is quite likely in a local bar but lets skip over that), get rid of the home base one and limit the amount they can have on track as well. Hey, lets make it some kind of environmentalist statement and limit it to a truck no larger than X as well!
     
  13. william

    william F1 World Champ

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    I think a 1000hp car without downforce would be very difficult to drive, and probably dangerous too.

    One thing I cannot understand is why there is not a limit on downforce in the rules.
    Let's the engineers design what they want, but put a limit on downforce; like 500kg on the rear axle, and 300kg on the front, for example, imposed by the FIA.

    I talked to a retired aerodynamist a few years ago, who told me that it would be very easy and simple to police.
    According to him, there is the technology available to measure the downforce on a vehicle.
    The cars could be fitted with calibrated gauges on the chassis to constantly monitor the level of downforce.
    If a car was found with too much downforce, the team would have to reduce it during practice, to conform to the FIA imposed limits for qualifs, and race.
    The gauges would be checked after the race, like they do with the weight, the fuel flow, the revs limits, etc ...

    A limit of downforce, would bring a curb in aero, a reduction in team budget, and no need to change the bodywork for each race.
    To me, that would be a win-win situation.
     
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  14. Remy Zero

    Remy Zero Two Time F1 World Champ

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    The problem is, besides all these human factors, and body language, F1 is lacking the most important ingredient - unpredictability.

    Just look at the previous week. Who would have imagined Liverpool beating mighty Barca by 4 goals, after being down by 3 goals in the first leg? And while the names Son, Eriksen, and Kane pops up on Tottenham's best players,
    a rather unknown Brazilian, Lucas Moura, scored a hat trick at the last minute to beat Ajax to meet Liverpool in the finals of the Champions league in Madrid.

    2 games, 2 completely crazy matches. Even as Man Utd fan, i loved every moment of it. I rest my case.
     
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  15. Bas Jaski

    Bas Jaski Two Time F1 World Champ

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    Absolutely correct
     
  16. william

    william F1 World Champ

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    Yet, people like Ross Brawn never talk about it.
    F1 is completely ruined by the aero, IMO.
     
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  17. Bas Jaski

    Bas Jaski Two Time F1 World Champ

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    Yep. His solution was getting an even wider wing! What kind of solution is that?! They didn't want the cars to go much slower so their fix for taking some of the elements off was that...unbelievable.

    Tuck the wing in to no wider than the inside of front tyres, allow 1 element and recover some (or all) the downforce by allowing a venturi tunnel. Want no games played? Simple, the tunnel has to then be completely straight, no wider than X, no higher than X and no holes. Simple. A cheap solution that will actually work.

    They didn't even test these wings out before making the regulation, just come CFD programming. 100s of old GP2 chassis to choose from and bolt these wing concepts on, plenty of competent drivers about who would happily take a week to drive these cars on a track following each other and see how the different wing concepts work when in a racing situation.

    I'm utterly baffled
     
  18. 375+

    375+ F1 Veteran
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    Why? I don't get it.
     
  19. william

    william F1 World Champ

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    To me, another definition of aero rules, with dimensions, etc ... is not the way to go.
    People like Newey and else would soon find a way to circumvent the new rules, spending millions on simulators and hundreds of hours in the Wind tunnel.
    I just don't trust them to curb the aero.
    I think it would be a lot simpler to impose a limit on downforce on each axle, and disqualify cars that go over it.
    That would concentrate the mind, and put a stop to this permanent aero R&D that is crippling teams' budgets.
     
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  20. Remy Zero

    Remy Zero Two Time F1 World Champ

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    I recently re-watched the 2002 or 2004, French GP. The wheel to wheel battle between MS, Kimi and JPM was really amazing. Oh yes, and that 2005 Imola race..

    these days, everything about F1 is farce (DRS and the cukin DRS), and just for the show. F1 doesn't have a soul anymore
     
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  21. william

    william F1 World Champ

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    Ross Brawn built his success on a clever interpretation of the aero rules in 2009.
     
  22. Bas Jaski

    Bas Jaski Two Time F1 World Champ

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    I get what you're saying. I think dimensions need to be given so that tricks can't happen, but indeed with maximum loads like you propose also
     
  23. CSM0TION

    CSM0TION Formula Junior

    Oct 14, 2004
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    I agree with this. Also make the cars smaller.
     
  24. Bas Jaski

    Bas Jaski Two Time F1 World Champ

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    yep. Take some of the width out again.

    Saw a video yesterday and seems lots of F1 drivers are in favour of refueling return....whilst being shown all the videos of F1 cars/drivers set on fire!
     
  25. william

    william F1 World Champ

    Jun 3, 2006
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    I am already not in favour of the mandatory tyre change imposed by the rules, so I would be even more opposed to refuelling.

    I know why the organisers could wish that; simply to spice the race and introduce another degree of strategy for the team.

    That's what kills the racing, IMO; teams expect their cars to take advantage of pit stops to pass their opponents, rather than overtaking them on the track.

    Plus, cars nowadays carry half the fuel load they used to years ago , and re fuelling doesn't make sense.

    The best way to attract an audience is to have racing from the light to the flag, without any gimmicks, no lift and coast, and no limitation on fuel flow, etc... and a constant battle from start to finish.
     
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