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488 New owner saying hi and wanting some advice

Discussion in '458 Italia/488/F8' started by vikz83, Apr 19, 2021.

  1. vikz83

    vikz83 Rookie

    Apr 19, 2021
    3
    Full Name:
    vikram sudera
    Hi all, I have just purchased my first ever Ferrari, a 2017 488 GTB in Rosso Corsa. I am from the UK

    Its beautiful and really enjoying it so far but I wanted to advice. I have come out of 911's and lastly a GT3.

    The 488 is much more relaxed and subdued in comparison. I drive mainly on B-roads and a few track days through the year.

    i just wanted some advice on how to make the car feel a bit more engaging on track as currently it feels a bit numb.

    I have the comfort daytona seats but they are too large for me, I am 5' 6" and 60kg (130lbs) so I get thrown around a lot in the car.

    Also the car is very quiet inside and out.

    IS it possible to swap the seats without it costing an absolute fortune (Ferrari want £18k) ? is it worth while and also is it worth looking at changing the exhaust system? what to and a rough idea of costs?
     
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  3. Melvok

    Melvok F1 World Champ
    Silver Subscribed Owner

    Jul 25, 2008
    13,290
    Amersfoort, Holland.
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    Mel
    Congrats on the car and have a happy time in it !

    It is worth that what you want to spend ...

    Seats con sometimes be foud for around K€ 11 on Ebay ...

    But try them on (go sit in them) before you order them and inspect them yourself before you order them.

    Even if this costs you travelling to EU ...
     
  4. greyboxer

    greyboxer F1 World Champ

    Dec 8, 2004
    11,177
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    Jimmie
    Welcome - there's a kind of index 'most 458 discussion' at the top which could be a good start point as well as threads generally covering most everything 458 related in this section - any exhaust swop will almost certainly prevent track days due to noise - very few cars have the medium or small seats specified so if its a big problem your best bet is probably just to have some standard/cheap racing seats bolted in
     
  5. Il Co-Pilota

    Il Co-Pilota F1 Rookie

    May 29, 2019
    4,520
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    Full Name:
    A.B
    I think it would be worth it for what you are doing. The electric seats are hopeless for spirited driving and track use.

    Put MPSC2 shoes on it. The MPSS will boil after 3-4 laps on a track. They were never designed for it. The Cup 2 is also a lot more responsive and firms up the ride a bit.
    Get the N1 spec Cup 2 variant in the stock 488 size. They are MUCH better than the K1 and K2 variant.

    Get the front camber set to -1.4 degrees and the front toe to -7 minutes and the rear to +10 minutes per side. Otherwise the track will destroy the outside of the tyres. The 488 is set up with a very conservative amout of camber from the factory, so get that sorted before you do anything.

    As for exhaust? I have found that for the 488, the Novi is by far the best I have heard. It's pricy though.

    Add a Capristo valve controller. It allows you to keep the the exhaust valves open at all times.

    Sent from my SM-G930F using FerrariChat.com mobile app
     
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  6. PMiranda

    PMiranda Karting

    Jul 23, 2004
    138
    Austin, TX
    One alternative to the Ferrari race seats would be to have a race shop install a carbon or aluminum race shell and do a poured seat insert that fits you exactly. If the mount points are there without permanently altering the interior (sorry I don't have specific 488 experience to tell) then 6-point harnesses with definitely have you engaged for the track! A bit of a pain to use on the street but with some forethought you can retain the stock 3-point belt as well. (This also allows you to buckle the seat belt behind the seat when using the 6-point harnesses and avoid error codes) I've done it on a couple BMWs that were tracked but still daily driven and there is some model-specific knowledge required to pull it off (because the vehicle will be looking for the stock belt tensioner and occupancy sensor, which you either have to fake out, transplant, or otherwise defeat) but they both went back to 100% stock without any problems. If it doesn't work out you can always use the race shells for a sim racing rig :)
     
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  8. RayJohns

    RayJohns F1 Veteran
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    May 21, 2006
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    I have driven the 488 on the track and I agree at speed it feels numb. My advice would be trade the 488 in and get yourself a 458 Speciale.

    Ray
     
  9. LVP488

    LVP488 F1 Rookie

    Jan 21, 2017
    3,627
    France
    Only if you want to be slower though ;)
     
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  10. RayJohns

    RayJohns F1 Veteran
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    May 21, 2006
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    Slower between traffic lights maybe, but slower on the track? I sort of doubt it.

    Look at the lap times on Fiorano for the 488 GTB vs. the 458 Speciale and you tell me:

    https://fastestlaps.com/tracks/fiorano

    We aren't discussing a Speciale compared to a Pista here. We are talking about a run-of-the-mill 488 GTB. I still submit that a Speciale would be a far more enjoyable car to own, especially for someone coming from something like a GT3.

    The 488 GTB is too much like driving a very fast Oldsmobile with upgraded suspension for me.

    Ray
     
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  12. LVP488

    LVP488 F1 Rookie

    Jan 21, 2017
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    Indeed I tell you, 488 GTB 1'23" and Speciale 1'23.5" (on your link)... independent tests are often even more at the advantage of the 488 (nothing really surprising given the power difference).
     
  13. dustman

    dustman F1 Veteran
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    Jun 12, 2007
    6,575
    Congrats.
    In regards to sound, you wont be able to appreciably fix the 488/Pista/F8, sadly. Lot of aftermarket offers, but they can’t solve the problem.
    Race seats are exceptional, but I wouldn’t go thru the trouble and cost to swap.
     
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  14. RayJohns

    RayJohns F1 Veteran
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    1/2 a second faster or not, I still say get a 458 Speciale :)

    Ray
     
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  15. RayJohns

    RayJohns F1 Veteran
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    Daytona seats aren't what you want on a track car. I don't even care for them on a street car.

    Ray
     
  16. LVP488

    LVP488 F1 Rookie

    Jan 21, 2017
    3,627
    France
    You are completely entitled to prefer a slower car for whatever reason but there's no reason to falsely claim it's faster ;)
     
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  17. 3POINT8

    3POINT8 F1 Rookie

    Jan 23, 2014
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  18. RayJohns

    RayJohns F1 Veteran
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    1/2 a second plus or minus basically makes them the same speed in the real world.

    If the Speciale has a lithium battery and forged wheels vs. base wheels on the 488, then it could be a different story. Also, keep in mind that something like electric seats can add over 100 lbs to the car. Having a full tank of fuel vs 1/2 a tank can add 50 to 75 lbs too. So there is a lot here to consider when comparing cars. Doesn't the lift system add something crazy like 150 lbs?

    Ray
     
  19. docster

    docster Karting
    Silver Subscribed

    Apr 14, 2004
    231
    Oregon
    Full Name:
    David
    If swapping out for racing seats isn't an option, here's a little trick I use for track days that has helped some. I have full electric Daytona seats, and before each track session I do the following:
    1. Move seat back some from my usual driving position
    2. Add some rear rake to the seatback
    3. Fasten lap belt, pull tight, and hold lap portion tight while feeding all slack in shoulder belt so it is taken up by reel
    4. Yank smartly on shoulder belt portion to get tensioner to lock
    5. Keeping shoulder belt locked, move seat forward and take rake out of seatback until both lap and shoulder belts are tight on your body

    Takes a little "fiddling" to end up with desired driving position *and* tight lap and tight (locked) shoulder belt, but can definitely make for less shifting around in the seat when tracking. (Of course, this won't work if your normal driving position is with the seat all the way rearward and/or fully raked to the rear, and I'm also not sure how feasible this would be with manual seats.)

    HTH,

    Doc
     
  20. RayJohns

    RayJohns F1 Veteran
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    Well, it's a far better car - that's the main reason. I had a 488 GTB and it didn't blow my skirt up in the least.

    The new Ferraris just aren't what they used to be. Sure, they are faster, but that doesn't make them more fun to own. I think the jury is finally out on that whole debate and people are voting with their pocket books at this pint. Lots of people are married to their 488's, but a lot of people also just blindly buy whatever Ferrari releases without really having any eye towards style or what makes a car enjoyable to own or drive

    If you want the 488 GTB instead of a Speciale because it's 500 ms faster around Fiorano, then I don't think there's much help for you LVP haha :-D

    No Ferrari enthusiast worth their salt would take a 488 GTB over a Speciale. I mean let's get real here; that's like saying you'd take an F430 over a 360CS because it's a bit faster.

    No way.

    Ray
     
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  21. OSUferrari

    OSUferrari Formula Junior
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    Dec 13, 2015
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    John
    Oldsmobile? Really? Damn. I just bought a 488 GTS -guess I have to sell it now.
     
  22. RayJohns

    RayJohns F1 Veteran
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    Yeah, sell it before the price drops any further :)

    Ray
     
  23. mdrums

    mdrums Formula Junior

    Jun 11, 2006
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    Mike
    Vikz83, RayJohns...HATES....DESPISES the 488 cars.... so there’s that.

    Ray.... cool down buddy...take a break and breath...we are trying to help a new Ferrari owner not berate his car choice and others choices.
     
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  24. RayJohns

    RayJohns F1 Veteran
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    Haha, yeah there is that. You guys know LVP488 always gets me all fired up w/ his 488 talk lol.

    I didn't have great luck with my 488, but it wasn't the worst car I ever owned. That distinction goes to the Renault R5 Turbo II - also French, like LVP488 :)

    Ray
     
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  25. RayJohns

    RayJohns F1 Veteran
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    Speaking of which car is faster, here's a great video I was watching the other night. Really good series where they drag race Ken Block's methanol burning AWD mustang against a bunch of different cars.

    This particular video features the F8, but keep in mind the mustang is just crazy fast:

     
  26. vikz83

    vikz83 Rookie

    Apr 19, 2021
    3
    Full Name:
    vikram sudera
    hi, guys, thanks for some of the advice. I was worried the thread was going to get derailed.

    Thanks Co-pilota....
    Am I correct in thinking the N1 variant is for Porsche, where the K versions are Ferrari, why would you advice putting a Porsche tyre on the Ferrari? IS the porsche tyre better and in what way.?
    why is it better could you please help as I asked my tyre shop and they are reluctant to do this saying my insurance could be invalid.
     
  27. Il Co-Pilota

    Il Co-Pilota F1 Rookie

    May 29, 2019
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    Sure.

    Yes, they are indeed the Porsche tyres.

    They work better for a few reasons. They are more neutral in their handling characteristics. Ferrari OE tyres are generally somewhat conservative in the sense that they have a bit of a fast initial response to give some excitement, but they quickly go into understeer in order to keep the car safe and "easy" to drive. The Porsche GT4 set is much more capable of retaining mid corner grip all the way through the exit and power out. So in short, the handling characteristics of the Porsche N1 tyres are more neutrally balanced, provide less understeer and better feedback.

    The tread itself is also a bit wider, despite them being the same 245 and 305 width. I find that they run a wee bit cooler which I in part think can be contributed to a larger surface area. Of course this lower heat is also due to less scrubbing though the turns and during breaking.

    Overall the N1 tyre just feels a lot more like a proper track day tyre that has a bit less of a "safety net" so to speak..If you come from a Porsche GT RS car, you will greatly appreciate this character.

    Make sure you keep an eye on the pressure though. On a 488 that has been dialed in a bit, they run at their best if you set them to about 2.2 bar squared hot. Of course such things are a bit subjective, but that's definitely a good place to start. Just make sure the pressures and temps don't spike, because then they drop off fast. Depending on driving style, track, day temps etc. between 2.1 and 2.3 bar seems to be the sweet spot.

    Something else you can also do to help your car a bit, is cornering stability and weight distribution.

    The cars come with a setup from the factory that is somewhat butt heavy compared to what Ferrari say. If you can get it on the scales, see if you can get it to about 42.5 front and 57.5 rear. My guess is that it is more like 41/59 as is now.
    If you lower the car a bit, like 10-12 mm all around, that will help the roll more than one might think. It does obviously not change the spring preload as you are just moving the lower perches down, but it tightens up the preload on the sway bars causing less roll in the turns.
     
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