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Oilfilter 328

Discussion in 'Technical Q&A' started by Dutchman, Jan 22, 2004.

  1. Dutchman

    Dutchman F1 Veteran
    Lifetime Rossa Owner

    Dec 4, 2002
    6,180
    EU
    Full Name:
    Ton
    Did someone ever use a "MANN" oilfilter for his 3x8? The number is the same but it says Fiat and Ford on the side.

    Ton
     
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  3. Corsa

    Corsa Karting

    Nov 1, 2003
    109
    Stockholm
    Full Name:
    Peter
    Please, check this thread. I know its not about MANN but...

    http://www.ferrarichat.com/discus/messages/112/307068.html

    or short version:

    ---
    I have changed from FRAM to UFI oil filter now.

    New figures

    FRAM PH28041
    Engine off for 24 h: 7,3 s before oil pressure light goes off, needle goes to 3,5 bar.
    30 minutes off: 4,5 s
    5 s minutes off: Less than a second

    UFI
    Engine 24 h off: 3,3 s before oil pressure light goes off

    My mechanic says that FRAM is out of his shop now.
    He didn't know FRAM was that bad.

    This started it:
    ---
    My 328 takes about 5 second to build up oil pressure from cold. I.e from ignition on until the oil pressure lamp goes off.

    I have a feeling that it took less than that before my last oil filter change. Do I have a oil filter problem or something else? Is it normal with 5 second?

    Do also check this tread
    http://www.ferrarichat.com/discus/messages/112/288083.html?1059962078

    Ciao
    Peter
     
  4. joeyy

    joeyy Karting

    Nov 11, 2003
    190
    long island
    Full Name:
    joe
    go with UFI. my 308 oil light turnes off as soon as engine lights.i have found none better.
     
  5. TOM B

    TOM B Formula 3

    Jul 24, 2003
    1,038
    Orange County, NY
    Full Name:
    Thomas Buckley
    No offense , but were you around during the GREAT UFI FAILURE of three years ago ? I had two UFI's blow out their gaskets in two days. It turned out , once I posted the occurance on FERRARILIST, others chimed in that they had the same problem. The UFI rep insisted that I had installed the filters improperly . He also implied that since I purchased the filters from a source other than an authorized dealer----they must have been tampered with. Yeah, TL Rutlands has nothing better to do but sabotoge oil filters.

    Shortly thereafter , Ferrari issued a notice to all dealers not to use UFI. They then issued a recall and fixed the problem of the failing gaskets.

    I will never use UFI oil filters again. Baldwin B253 is the way to go.


    Tom
     
  6. Dutchman

    Dutchman F1 Veteran
    Lifetime Rossa Owner

    Dec 4, 2002
    6,180
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    Ton
    Guys,

    Thanks for the input. I will read the other threads with care. I will also post my experiences with the "Mann" filter.

    Ton
     
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  8. branko

    branko F1 Rookie
    Owner

    Mar 17, 2003
    3,710
    Birmingham, Alabama
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    Branko Medenica
    I also use the Baldwin B253 and never had the hint of a problem.
     
  9. atlantaman

    atlantaman Formula 3

    Mar 31, 2002
    1,726
    Roswell, Georgia
    Full Name:
    Charles
    If you are concerned about the filter--try this:

    remove the filter mount and run 2 (-12) lines over to a dual remote filter unit mounted below the coolent tank--use (2) Fram filters for 280Z cars With the 2 filters you get better flow, more filtering, cheaper filters, and NO MORE DUMPED OIL WHEN CHANGING FILTERS....
     
  10. f355spider

    f355spider F1 World Champ
    Rossa Subscribed Owner

    May 29, 2001
    17,315
    USA
    Tom,
    I am in total agreement that UFI and Ferrari handled the defective filter situation in a poor manner, and were not timely in responding to this situation. But I would also like to caution others that those filters are long gone, and a redesigned UFI (and satisfactory replacement) is now on dealer shelves.

    It is in my limited understanding, that the Mann filter does NOT have the internal standpipe that Ferrari specifies. It should be easily seen if one were to look in the center hole of the mounting plate. Care to take a look and report back? :)
     
  11. Dutchman

    Dutchman F1 Veteran
    Lifetime Rossa Owner

    Dec 4, 2002
    6,180
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    Ton
    Dave,

    I just checked the MANN filter. What I see is a standpipe of about 1,5 inches diameter with holes in it. And all the way up in the filter I can see something like a spring.

    Does this make any sense to you? Is that the standpipe that you mean?

    Ton
     
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  13. TOM B

    TOM B Formula 3

    Jul 24, 2003
    1,038
    Orange County, NY
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    Thomas Buckley

    Dave,
    What can I say ? I hold a grudge against companies that don't own up to their mistakes. Anyway, even when the UFI's weren't blowing their gaskets I was told that I needed to glue the gasket in place . A few people told me I needed to flip the gasket over. I don't think I need to pay $30.00 for an oil filter and then have to modify it to make it work properly. I'm paying $9.00 for the Baldwin and never had a problem. It even has the standpipe . : )

    Tom
     
  14. Verell

    Verell F1 Veteran
    Consultant Owner

    May 5, 2001
    7,002
    Groton, MA
    Full Name:
    Verell Boaen
    That's not a standpipe, sounds like the inside of the filter element.

    A standpipe is a solid metal tube that goes almost all of the way to the top of the filter. It's purpose is to keep oil from draining out the filter's center hole when the filter is mounted vertically. The anti-drainback valve keeps the oil from leaking out of the ring of holes on the bottom of the filter. When a standpipe filter like the Baldwin is removed, it's full of oil, about a quart!

    W/O the standpipe, the oil pump would have to pump that quart of oil into the filter before it would flow into the engine & begin building pressure! It takes several seconds to do this!
     
  15. f355spider

    f355spider F1 World Champ
    Rossa Subscribed Owner

    May 29, 2001
    17,315
    USA
    Tom,
    You are rightfully PO'd at UFI, can't blame you there. BTW, the sealing ring issues were purely with the earlier design...the latest one uses the same sealing ring as a Baldwin. Go figure.... :)
     
  16. Dutchman

    Dutchman F1 Veteran
    Lifetime Rossa Owner

    Dec 4, 2002
    6,180
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    Ton
    Is the standpipe an essential item for the oilfilter.

    Ton
     
  17. TOM B

    TOM B Formula 3

    Jul 24, 2003
    1,038
    Orange County, NY
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    Thomas Buckley
    Dave,
    Besides, the Baldwin is red----matches the car. The UFI, being white, just doesn't look right. :)

    Tom
     
  18. TOM B

    TOM B Formula 3

    Jul 24, 2003
    1,038
    Orange County, NY
    Full Name:
    Thomas Buckley
    One more thing. To eliminate the mess caused by the oil pouring out of the oil filter's standpipe upon removal---punch a small hole in the top of the filter prior to removal. This relieves the pressure and allows the oil to drain out of the filter. No mess.

    Tom
     
  19. Dutchman

    Dutchman F1 Veteran
    Lifetime Rossa Owner

    Dec 4, 2002
    6,180
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    Ton
    I was told that there is a risk of bringing small metal fragments into the engine when you punch a hole.

    Ton
     
  20. Steve Magnusson

    Steve Magnusson Two Time F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa

    Jan 11, 2001
    20,468
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    Ton -- It's not a huge deal, but this thread:

    http://www.ferrarichat.com/discus/messages/256120/19896.html

    has an illustration showing how a standpipe traps and holds more oil inside the oil filter case after engine shutoff in a gasket-end-down mounting arrangement. Also, the oil filters that have a standpipe for an F application (Baldwin, UFI, Fram, and an English brand was mentioned that I can't recall for sure -- Hastings?) tend to have more rugged/well-built outer cases to deal with the higher (especially cold start-up) pressure.

    Would I pay $50 for an oil filter just to get the standpipe? -- no. But the price of the Baldwin (and even the UFI from the right places) is low enough that it's worth it IMO.
     
  21. Dutchman

    Dutchman F1 Veteran
    Lifetime Rossa Owner

    Dec 4, 2002
    6,180
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    Ton
    Steve,

    Thanks for the input. I will read the other thread tonight.
    The MANN filter costed me € 13. A UFI filter will cost € 50.

    Ton
     
  22. Steve Magnusson

    Steve Magnusson Two Time F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa

    Jan 11, 2001
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    Ton -- I understand your resistance at that price (that's about what an F dealer here in the US will charge for a UFI too!).

    FerrariUK shows the V8 UFI oil filter (F PN 191993) for 14.4 pounds -- are you not able to source parts from them (without excessive shipping/taxation/etc.) due to your location?

    Seems like someone should smuggle a suitcase full of Baldwins to Europe;)
     
  23. Ferrari_tech

    Ferrari_tech Formula 3

    Jul 28, 2003
    1,527
    UK
    Full Name:
    Malcolm W
    Steve,

    Current price for UFI filter (191993) from FUK is now £8.50 - reason for difference is the web site is due to be updated this week.


    MW
     
  24. BrentC

    BrentC Formula Junior

    Aug 13, 2003
    278
    What is a good price for a Baldwin filter? Do they have other applications besides the 328? In other words, do they make filters for other Ferrari models or does the B253 fit any other models? Thanks for the input.

    Brent
     
  25. Steve Magnusson

    Steve Magnusson Two Time F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa

    Jan 11, 2001
    20,468
    Texas
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    Steve Magnusson
    I'd say the Baldwin B253 goes for $8~$10 in the US if ordered directly from a larger truck supply house in the major urban areas, maybe a little more ($10~$12) if from a smaller retail outlet, or you're more out in the sticks.

    Malcolm -- that £8.50 UFI price is very fair IMO (similar to what T. Rutlands charges here in the US IIRC) -- I can't wait 'til you start offering TR parts too!

    The F PN 191993 UFI (which used to be F PN 100325 or 111782) is used on many different F models -- I believe all the pre-348 V8s and older 12s using the dual oil filters could use the B253 (i.e., the F that can't use it are the TR, 348, and the post-348 models). So just go by PN -- if your F model uses 191993, it can use the Baldwin B253.
     
  26. Dutchman

    Dutchman F1 Veteran
    Lifetime Rossa Owner

    Dec 4, 2002
    6,180
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    Ton
    Thanks,

    I will order one from Ferrari UK via the owners website tomorrow.

    Ton
     
  27. robertgarven

    robertgarven F1 Veteran
    Rossa Subscribed Owner

    Feb 24, 2002
    5,100
    Ventura, California
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    Robert Garven
    Ton, Brent, et al,
    Old man Baldwin and Ferrari were friends, he even sponsored Ferrari racing in the US, that is why they still make a filter to fit the F cars. You cant fin a better filter. Here is my take on this:

    UFI under glass
     
  28. robertgarven

    robertgarven F1 Veteran
    Rossa Subscribed Owner

    Feb 24, 2002
    5,100
    Ventura, California
    Full Name:
    Robert Garven
    Baldwin on the car!!!!!
     

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