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Pre-purchase questions you wish you had asked

Discussion in '360/430' started by AZMrCrazy, Apr 17, 2018.

  1. AZMrCrazy

    AZMrCrazy Rookie
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    Apr 13, 2018
    22
    Phoenix, AZ
    Full Name:
    Robert
    Hello everyone I'm a long-time lurker and first time poster. This year I will finally achieve my lifelong dream of owning one of these beautiful machines and have been performing research for the past several months to that end. This board has been instrumental in my education so first I want to thank everyone that has participated on this board over the years

    I spent several months in the 360/430 debate to ultimately decide the F430 is my choice

    There are many threads that discuss questions you should ask when purchasing but what I want to know from all of you that have purchased cars which questions do you wish you would have asked but didn't and why - Thank you
     
  2. timwu12

    timwu12 Formula Junior

    Oct 31, 2014
    541
    Houston, TX
    None, I asked and got an answer to everything that I wanted to know.

    If you're ignorant and don't know to ask, that's one thing; but if there's something you wish you had asked but didn't, that's a different story.

    Make sure you get a PPI and ask and demand an answer to everything you want to know! There are no returns once you buy it so make sure you ask everything you wanted to ask before signing.
     
  3. KM1959

    KM1959 Formula Junior

    Nov 12, 2014
    984
    Full Name:
    Kevin
    Geez, I couldn't helped thinking that you come off sounding a little condescending.

    Although not exactly what the OP asked one thing that I found helpful was to be right there when the PPI was performed. Seeing my car on a lift, looking for signs of abuse, was very informative. Also, check it out as you would any car you would buy. Sit in it. Does the cushion lean to one side? Is the seat creaky? Steering wheel worn? Dash leather detatching? Defroster vents popped? Air bag leather saggy? This is what you'll be staring at while sitting at traffic lights. If it isn't perfect or near perfect, it will not be cheap to fix it. None of these things I saw being addressed in a PPI but things I noticed on several cars.

    Also were stickies fixed? Getting a little gummy? They are not hard to fix yourself if you are somewhat handy. If you aren't DaveRocks can help you out.

    One thing that I wished I had done prior to buying a Ferrar was to attend a few local Ferrari get-togethers and meet some owners. Don't be shy, introduce yourself, they can't help themslves in gushing about these cars. Fortunately, I picked a couple of great cars to buy but I have to admit that I was still nervous doing it. Having a friend looking out for me - who actually owned a Ferrari - would have been very helpful.

    Best of luck in your search! Feel free to IM me should you have any questions.
     
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  4. timwu12

    timwu12 Formula Junior

    Oct 31, 2014
    541
    Houston, TX
    I didn't intend for my comment to come off condescending but all of the items you listed above to look and check for are in line with what each prospective owner should look out for on their own or through a PPI with any car purchase, let alone a F car.

    But the OP asked what questions you wish you had asked but didn't, and in that situation, I truly had none, and everyone else shouldn't as well. There are tons of threads and even a checklist made up by a member on what to look out for in a PPI and common issues with both the 360 and the F430 models and I'm not trying to sound condescending but each buyer should be well informed of what they're buying. If for whatever reason they knew to ask something but didn't, then they're shooting themselves in the foot by not being fully informed because they chose not to ask.
     
  5. AZMrCrazy

    AZMrCrazy Rookie
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    Apr 13, 2018
    22
    Phoenix, AZ
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    Robert
    @timwu12 - I agree with your second sententance completely - i'm not looking to create another "what question should I ask" thread as there are decades worth of material in this forum concerning that exact topic what I'm looking for are those "different stories". I put together my list of questions that are important to me but my perspective and experience are new so that's a flaw in my strategy therefore by understanding other owners stories I hope to gain perspective so that I can determine the importance of the questions that I need to ask - thank you for your reply

    @KM1959 - just awesome information - in all the threads I've read I don't recall anyone mentioning the importance of being present for the PPI - also, I plan to post in the regional thread looking for coffee & cars type events as that's the next phase of my preparation. I'm also planning a couple of those "Dream Cars" driving events as well as I plan to rent at least once to familiarize myself with the F1 transmission - then I can add to the endless N or in gear debate while stopped at a light - lol - I appreciate your time in responding and will definately take you up on your offer to ask you questions via PM - thank you
     
  6. KM1959

    KM1959 Formula Junior

    Nov 12, 2014
    984
    Full Name:
    Kevin
    I didn't think that you meant to come off that way I just took it that way, it was probably magnified because it was the
    OP's first thread here. I remember feeling a little (read: a whole lot) out of my element when buying my first Ferrari. I'll always be grateful to Craig Calder at Fast Cars for taking the time to go over the car with me and then give my wife and I an impromptu two-hour tour of his impressive facility. We immediately felt part of the Ferrari community.
     
  7. timwu12

    timwu12 Formula Junior

    Oct 31, 2014
    541
    Houston, TX
    Robert, I will also second Kevin's suggestion of being present for the PPI if possible. A round trip ticket, coast to coast, can be had for about $500, and though it may sound like a lot when added to the cost of the PPI itself, it may be the best money you ever spent if the car ends up being misrepresented when seen in person as each person's interpretation of something in "good condition" will differ a bit.

    Essentially, you don't want to be this guy (pics on pg. 4, post #25): https://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/threads/how-to-deal-with-out-of-state-dealership-who-lie-about-the-car-condition.573338/
     
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  8. billy.gif

    billy.gif Karting

    Mar 9, 2017
    232
    Finland
    #8 billy.gif, Apr 18, 2018
    Last edited: Apr 18, 2018
    Questions what I wish I'd asked? Well I had lurked this forum like 6 months and acquired two "self PPI" kind of lists which I printed out before I went shopping. I got feeling that the sales persons were quite ... baffled when I wanted to check all these "nitty-gritty" things.

    I wish I had searched about previous owner(s) information and spoke with them, as in my country its possible to track them down via our federal "DVLA / registry" agency. But at the end this turned out just fine, car has very good history from Italy.

    There's this kind of "checklist" somewhere in this 360/430 section wheres important things to check as being "newbie" about purchasing a Ferrari.

    EDIT:

    https://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/threads/360-f430-specific-pre-purchase-inspection-checklist.568312/#post-145785769

    All the credits goes to "whatheheck" :)
     
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  9. Carnut

    Carnut F1 Rookie
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    Nov 3, 2003
    3,540
    Gladwyne PA
    Full Name:
    Morrie
    I didn't think there anything wrong with any of the replies, and the fact that OP is a long time lurker (who has done his research) tells me he has probably read quite a bit. I think (outside of a car dealer) my 466 car purchases put me in sort of the highly experienced category when it comes to car buying. So here are my tips, I would not buy a Ferrari from any dealer (I do mean any) other than Algar Ferrari. I wont go into naming names but I have helped a lot of people buys cars (high and low end), and unless I knew the car (if I as buying from a individual), then my Ferrari (all 6 have) would be from Algar. PPI's are great if the person doing them is any good (I have seen things missed many times), which is another reason I only buy from one place. I agree if you can go see the car, then do it. Pictures no matter how good are not the best way to see a car. I wont mention service records, since you should know about that one. I am one that does not like to see a car with 10K miles and 5 owners. From my experience a one owner car is usually taken care of better than 5 people treating like a lease car. By the time I got my first F1 car I had owned Maserati CC cars and BMW SMG, so there really was not much of a learning curve (but I'd be sure you know to check clutch wear and PIS settings), and you will likely learn after the first day or two. I am one of those pull back into N guys, just do it, don't know why. In the end I will say this, many people shop based on price (or what it will be worth), I shop based on what I want (color, options, condition) since this is not a SUV and it is not about being practical it is about being moved. Robert if there is anything else I can answer let me know, I would gladly introduce you to the group at Algar, I know if you buy from them you will get a great car.
     
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  10. dang2407

    dang2407 Karting

    Apr 29, 2017
    146
    Crawley, UK
    If you go through life thinking there's nothing more you can learn, you are either:
    1) F-ing clever, or
    2) F-ing stupid

    Think about it...
     
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  11. Ron328

    Ron328 Formula 3
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    Mar 10, 2003
    2,492
    Oregon
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    Ron
    We are of course focused on the mechanicals and electricals during ppi. This may sound silly but I almost forgot to ask how the interior smells. Cigarette/tobacco smell is a deal breaker to me. I remember when a good friend purchased a used Lexus SUV. Nice car in and out but previous owner smoked and interior odor was terrible. Even if I get a good deal, I will never consider such a car. But that's me.
     
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  12. Skidkid

    Skidkid F1 Veteran
    Rossa Subscribed Owner

    Aug 25, 2005
    5,709
    Campbell, CA
    Full Name:
    John Zornes
    If you ask me one of the most important issues is talking to the owner/seller. Do they come across as completely open and honest? Are they grinding for every penny? The more honest they are the better. People here often rule out cars for relatively minor issues; then they have moved on to a car where the seller is less honest so they don't know about the issues. That leads to that surprise $10K bill later. Don't rule out cars over disclosed minor issues for a car with hidden issues. It is also important that the seller have the means to do bigger repairs. Have they fielded any large bills? If not, they probably have skipped a lot of stuff and you are exposed later.
     
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  13. azlin75

    azlin75 Formula Junior

    Jul 16, 2017
    760
    Kansas
    Full Name:
    Shawn Hicks
    One thing I noticed is just talking to some of the owners at cars and coffee or car shows sometimes lets you know some of the cars quirks or things that might not be mentioned in these forums very often. Usually I find that most car owners in general are happy to tell people about the cars they own and things they like and don't like. There are always going to be things you dislike about most cars since none are perfect. Obviously looking around and asking on the forums is a good idea too since most of the folks here are super helpful.

    I'm one of the guys that likes to know about the issues and quirks of prospective cars I'm interested in and everyone I've spoken with has been very forthcoming and helpful. Also at a minimum a test drive is a must. I know a guy that bought a testarossa without even personally inspecting it or driving it. Not only did he have about a 30k hole burnt in his pocket after his purchase he really didn't like driving it.
     
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  14. klointheridge

    klointheridge Karting

    Jun 5, 2017
    217
    Westchester Cty, NY
    Full Name:
    Kevin Long
    I had a remote ppi done (I live in NY and the car was in CA) and I used a FChat recommended PPI Guy. He was very nice but after getting my car, he clearly didn’t look at the things he checked off as being fine. I had obvious issues when the car got to me that should have been caught in the PPI (as they were checked off as good). Bottom line...try to be there when it’s being done as others have said. I wish I had.


    Sent from my iPhone using FerrariChat.com mobile app
     
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  15. recoil

    recoil Formula Junior
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    Sep 7, 2007
    427
    Virginia
    Full Name:
    Steve
    Bear in mind, there are some shops no longer doing PPIs. I called two dealerships in different states and neither would perform them for me as the buyer.

    The seller can buy them but the report is given directly to them. I found this odd but understand there could be liabilities with high buyer expectations.

    Now you'll have to research finding a good independent and hope the check is very thorough and that they will even do it.

    Steve
     
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  16. AZMrCrazy

    AZMrCrazy Rookie
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    Apr 13, 2018
    22
    Phoenix, AZ
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    Robert
    Thank you - 466 vehicle purchases is quite amazing - I've seen many of your posts the last several months I value your input - I started down this road thinking price - a 60K 360 is tempting - but as I learned more and immersed myself in the forums and in this process well the price factor faded fast - I do have a price limit but I'd rather push that ceiling and get exactly what I want instead of a lower payment - again thank you for your comments
     
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  17. AZMrCrazy

    AZMrCrazy Rookie
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    Apr 13, 2018
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    Phoenix, AZ
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    Robert
    Another excellent insight that I do not recall reading about in the countless "what question should I ask "threads I'm a non-smoker so having a car owned by a previous smoker would be a significant dealbreaker for me - excellent. Thank you
     
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  18. AZMrCrazy

    AZMrCrazy Rookie
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    Apr 13, 2018
    22
    Phoenix, AZ
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    Robert
    Where to get a good PPI will be the topic of another thread I'll start when I get to that phase - and I will most certainly be present
    Photos do not do these vehicles justice and can hide significant issues
    My next adventure is to attend C&C events to mingle with owners and learn about the quirks every car has as well as gain the perspective of their experiences
    After that it's doing a couple dream cars /rental adventures so I can learn how to drive
    Then it's off to find my car in earnest as my business will afford me travel in the late summer / fall
    I plan to complete purchase before the holidays this year and celebrate my 50th birthday with my "new" Italian girlfriend
    I read somewhere that FCA is having some big gathering in Arizona next year I plan to be there with my Dream car and hope that I can meet many of you from the forum
    I truly appreciate everyone giving their time and input to help me as well as anyone else that happens across this thread
     
  19. Zed82

    Zed82 Formula Junior

    Sep 28, 2017
    316
    Gothenburg
    Full Name:
    Zlatan
    Did a PPI when i bought the 430. The manifolds were fine, 600 miles later one side was leaking. Of course you should do a PPI but these are old cars now and old cars break. One thing i have learnt through the years of buying cars is that almost nobody sells a 100% sorted car. I also learned that even high end dealerships cut corners and lie about the condition. Expect a $10k bill within the first year, if it turns out half that you´re good.
     
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  20. billy.gif

    billy.gif Karting

    Mar 9, 2017
    232
    Finland
    Exactly my thoughts. I do this even when I'm looking for used "daily driver" costing as low as 5-10k. You can find out very much of certain vehicle just by speaking with its previous owners, not necessarily with current seller but peoples who have been owning it prior. Usually they have nothing to hide or lose and you can tell if the car has had good or bad ... "ownership".

    In my relatively small home country, population of just 5,6 million, its not hard nor uncommon thing to track down previous owners via certain government agencies and I like to use this totally free "option" when looking for new vehicle. Of course in country like USA where there's like +270 million peoples this may not apply.
     
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  21. vrsurgeon

    vrsurgeon F1 World Champ
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    Dec 13, 2009
    13,022
    Charleston, SC
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    Curt
    When I did the PPI on mine, I asked my independent mechanic in the area to just look over the car as if I were there buying it. There were things that were missed that couldn't be picked up with a cursory exam.. As I expected. But the big question "does it run and drive" was answered to my satisfaction. People expect WAY to much out of a PPI..

    The ONLY question I wish I'd asked which might not have been answered was "how many people.. particularly famous ones.. got *lucky* IN the car". DNA analyses have time limits. :)
     
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  22. PKIM

    PKIM Karting
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    Jan 1, 2004
    127
    Redlands
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    Paul
    What do you guys think about getting a compression test and leak down in addition to PPI. I noticed that these are extra charge. To me it worth the extra money, better to have peace of mind. What's couple $100 buck when your looking to buy a $100k + car.
     
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  23. timwu12

    timwu12 Formula Junior

    Oct 31, 2014
    541
    Houston, TX
    I opted to get a compression test with my PPI. At the time, I needed to know for myself what the numbers looked like between each cylinder. Remember that it's not always about getting your engine to read a high PSI number. Each tool will be calibrated differently so as long as the compression numbers aren't absurdly low, pay attention to the variance between each cylinder's numbers.
     
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  24. KM1959

    KM1959 Formula Junior

    Nov 12, 2014
    984
    Full Name:
    Kevin
    I actually shuddered while reading this. Bleh.
     
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  25. AZMrCrazy

    AZMrCrazy Rookie
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    Apr 13, 2018
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    Robert
    I certainly see the advantage of this approach but do not believe there is an easy mechanism for finding previous owners here in the USA. Thank you for your insight
     

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