RedLine MTL - BIG improvement!!!!

Just to add to this,not only am I not experiencing any chattering on hard turns,but 2nd gear cold shifts are even better as well as no crunching in reverse,but I never had that problem even without using the MTL..

 

About 9 months ago I replaced my tranny fluid with MTL. I have been able to use second gear when the transmission is cold. Cold to me means 55 F because the 328 is housed in the basement during the cold months. It was a big improvement.

 

Just made the switch this year as well from Redline 85W90 NS to Redline MTL. I went out for the first drive of the season yesterday and I had the same experience, 2nd gear can be used right away without waiting for the fluids to warm. I didn't experience any chatter or other negatives, the gearbox seemed to shift a bit easier all around.

 

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Is it ok to put a little more, because this is what it says on my owners manual, 4qts.

 

I poured in a little more than 4.5 quarts and based on how much drained out the level setting hole, I'd say it's not far off the 4 liters or 4.23 quarts indicated in the manual.

 

Here's the info for what our manuals are calling for. Mine in for fluid service currently is getting 75w90, but service is only indicating it's a Shell product. They swear it's what Ferrari is recommending...
I have been experiencing the groaning during 1st gear hard turns for a while, but no issues using 1 to 2nd gear when cold.
Trade off I guess.[emoji53] View attachment AGIP ROTRA MP.pdf

Sent from my SM-G950U using FerrariChat.com mobile app

 

Further digging, came up with Shell Spirax S5 ATE 75W90, listing approved or recommended by Ferrari. Attached the pdf for reference

 

I don’t understand, last time I changed my gear oil, I put in 4.5 quarts but then last week when I drained it and even let it drained over night, I only measured 3.5 quarts of gear oil came out and I know I don’t have any leaks either. So What happen to the other quart?

 

Hey Mike,

There are 2 drain plugs - one for the transfer case. You might find your missing quart there.

 

Yes, I know about that drain plug although I didn’t remove it but I did removed the main and the one on the side where you normally fill it, I did filled it from the top of the transfer case until it’s started to come out of the side fill hole which is about 4.5 quarts at that point then I placed the side plug on.

 

Did you use the drain pan to measure or qt bottle, etc? My drain pan is not very accurate. Just saying!!

 

I used the MTL quart bottle.

 

Service came back and indicated they're not using Spirax S5 ATE 75w90 (listed as Ferrari approved) but Spirax S6 AXRME 75w90. More info for all of us to ponder and discuss.

 

A few notes here. I believe Ferrari originally specced GL4 for the transaxles. It has been theorized that any later recommendation for a GL5 was based on a lack of full understanding of the impact GL5 based lubricants would have on shift quality and syncronizer life. It says a lot that many here have noted an improvement in shift quality when moving from Redline NS (GL5) to MTL or MT90 (GL4).

The GL5 spec alone does not affect limited slip operation, although GL5 spec lubes may very well come with friction modifiers to reduce LSD clutch chatter since GL5 is really a differential lubricant. But you can add friction modifier to any gear lube if you are experiencing clutch chatter in tight turns. I think Redline even offers one. GM Positrac Additive (they may have changed the name to Limited Slip additive by now) has been popular for years because it's available at your local Chebbie dealer and it works. The trick with any friction modifier is to add only as much as is needed to eliminate clutch chatter. Which means adding 1/4 or 1/3 of a bottle and driving the car for a good distance before deciding whether or not you need to add a bit more, and repeating in necessary until the chatter is eliminated. Unlike horsepower, money, and whisky, more is not better here.

As I understand it, for the purposes of the GL rating alone GL5 is backwards compatible with GL4. In other words, GL5 exceeds all of the GL4 specs required for the GL level rating. However, as many of us have experienced firsthand, GL5 is "too slick" to allow proper engagement of the syncro rings in transmissions. But since GL5 is ostensibly "better" than GL4 it's getting tougher to find true GL4 oils (a GL4/GL5 is in truth a GL5 oil). Fortunately, there are still a few GL4s out there other than Redline's. Amsoil makes an excellent manual trans oil, I believe Pentosin offers one that might be the easiest to source for European owners, and believe it or not Ford offers a fully synthetic GL4 manual transmission oil. So if you're not happy with the way your car shifts with MTL or MT90, try one of the other GL4 oils. It's been my experience that manual transmissions can be finicky about their favorite oil, so what works best for the car ahead or behind yours on the production line might not work best in your car.

HTH.

 

My understanding, which was re-enforced in talking to a Redline tech, is that GL4 is a primarily a manual transmission lubricant; GL5 is a primarily a differential lubricant. A transaxle has to use the same lubricant for both so, strictly speaking, either one is a compromise to some extent.

 

Partially true. GL5 was developed to address the higher loads created by hypoid gears. The 308 transaxle does not contain hypoid gears, so there's not really any compromise in using GL4 in this application.

The practical side of this is that if you use GL5 and wind up with "graunchy" shifts you're causing premature wear due to the EP additives intended to protect the non-existant hypoid gears. If you're one of those lucky people whose gearbox shifts great with GL5 lubricant then who cares? But if you can hear any grinding at all any time you shift that's *actual* wear that's taking life out of your gearbox. If GL4 oil will decrease or eliminate that excessive wear that's far more desirable than providing protection for gears that don't even exist in a 308 transaxle.

 

FWIW, I used NS for years and this year shifted to MTL. My 246 & 328 seemed better with NS. I’m going back to NS next time and will see.....

 

Mike ever since I replaced mine with MTL two weeks ago, I have not experience any chattering and shift smoother than before and shift great to second gear at stone cold.

 

Yeps, same here. I generally let the car warm up idle 3-4 mins when starting in the morning. 1st-2nd is an absolutely clean shift with zero clatter.

 

Just changed oil from Castrol Syntrax to..... Castrol Syntrax. Did feel a big improvment! Maybe I should change the trans oil more often?

 

The tranny oil does have its viscosity break down via sheer so changing every two years would keep the performance and protection characteristics to the highest level possible.

There is no question that the Redline MTL or MT85 or MT90 Gl4's are suitable for the 308/328 Mondial series of engines.

 

Glad that GL4 is working well for you. That's typically been the case in our older gearboxes (my 348's 'box may be transverse, but its lubrication requirements are the same as your car's). Like I said above, different gearboxes work better with different oils, so anyone with a graunchy transaxle is well advised to keep experimenting until they find something that works really well in their car, but I'd suggest trying GL4 oils before GL5. Being GL4 oils, both MTL and MT90 work well in many transmissions and are at or near the top of the list of oils to try in our gearboxes. Amsoil tests extremely well (see recent thread in the 348/355 section) so it's worth experimenting with as well. The main thing is to eliminate gear crunching to reduce wear (and increase enjoyment of the car!)

 

Hi Mike, Did you make the switch? If so for better or worse?
I've got NS in mine at the moment and am also thinking to switch over to MTL. The NS made the gearbox more baulky than whatever was in there before.
I've got the gearbox pan off at the moment and cant see any hypoid gears in there, so I guess the GL 4 rating will be ok for 3X8 boxes.

 

MTL never disappoints!

 

Hi Richard! Yes I made the switch and to my experience, the NS really did improved the 1st to 2nd gear shifting but i could say the MTL is a step or two better than the NS. I have been using the NS for several years and really was happy with it. Give the MTL a try, you should be able to tell the difference as also is highly recommended by some of the gurus in this forum.