The official replica/re-creation thread

Hi Graham and Boudewijn,

As promised I’ll come back to you with regards to the frame and welding.
Yes Graham the welding is tig. I think we never could have exactly copied the rough gas welding. Herewith I post two pictures. The first is like Boudewijn’s fourth picture a very early chassis with an early Dino type engine. On the second picture in the background you see a chassis for a 120° engine, similar to Boudewijn’s first three pictures. On the foreground you see a 65° engine chassis as was similar to #0002.
To change from 65° to a 120° engine was not just some changing of the chassis (if it ever happened) as we used to think, but they merely had to build a new one, this is what we found out with regards to the measurements.
Besides this almost no chassis was exactly the same.
Finally Graham don’t understand me wrong but I take your observations as positive criticism that’s why we are as open as possible about the project.
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Thanks fors explaning Jan. Beautiful pics again. I like this one as well.
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Wow, what a great picture. So very clear, this one I would have liked to use on the sharknose.net
Keith Roach will like it when he starts with the body, as Von Trips Car (40) is chassis 0002.
Thanks for posting.

 

Pls take a look at this thread:
http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/showthread.php?t=89139

Check out the pics in post #17.

I thought it was a replica, but there is disagreement. Anybody know?

 

Definitely a POOR REPLICA, NO 250 or 340 MM Vignale Spider was ever LHD........and just look at the size of the front grille opening...........and the size of the triangular openings behind the rear wheels........Crazy! And how about the wrong wheels?
This for sure is a REPLICA.
Marcel Massini

 

Somehow I figured you wouldn't like it.

I might have some more pics of it. If I can find them, I'll post them.

My take too is that it is a replica. My question is more is it a rebody or not? Somebody told me it has a Ferrari engine, but I don't know whether the chassis is Ferrari or not.

 

Please do NOT post pics of replicas. This is Ferrarichat not Replicachat.
I am not the only one who is allergic to such b.s. and crazy fakes.
Even if this was built on a Ferrari chassis it is ALL wrong and a crime to have possibly destroyed another original Ferrari.
I really wonder what is wrong with all these guys who build fakes and replicas. Impress and/or fool others? Do they all have an ego problem?
Marcel Massini

 

If that was the case, they would build a different kind of replica... there is NO way the ego of such guys fits into such a tiny car... ;-)

 

I think posting photos of replicas and fakes serves an important purpose. I t allows those who know to explain why it's a fake/replica and those who don't get an education in how to spot the fakes. If these fakes are hidden away from view they will be all the harder to spot, for the non-expert. After all, these replica/fakes are an important part of Ferrari history, the marque is so widely admired that we need to know the difference between the real deal and the fakes.

 

I agree.

Pictures of replicas per se shouldn't be posted in the vintage section (or the other model specific sections) because as Marcel said this is not replicachat. However questionable cars where some bits are real and some not and it is unclear what is real and what not, should be discussed as David points out.

I'd like to continue the discussion of this Barchetta, but I don't want to cause allergic reactions and offend people. So for now I won't post any more pics, although I just found a bunch: The car took part in FCA's Ferraris on Oak Street concours in Chicago last year. That's simply the most prestigious event in the Midwest.

 

I do NOT rule ferrarichat, of course, and didn't want to sound so rigid. However, I have tried to be straightforward and direct as usual, that's my way. I am willing to discuss replicas but really think we all should concentrate on genuine and authentic Ferraris.

It may have been discussed earlier already but perhaps Rob Lay could set up a SPECIAL REPLICA SECTION? Not sure if this is a great idea or not? It may then possibly attract others with less knowledge? I don't know. Personally I think that those who photograph a car can always ask the owner if it is a replica or not and perhaps even check it out directly. If you don't ask, you don't learn. And, btw, there are several thousand Ferrari books that can be checked too.

Marcel Massini

 

the owner of the original car with the same color is Jess Pourret?

 

Yes. Correct. Here's a photo of Jess Pourret in his 250 MM Spider Vignale chassis #0274 MM.
COPYRIGHT MARCEL MASSINI
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Thanks for that picture, I start to see the differences now. Do you have a picture of the original car from behind by any chance?

 

Some of us are more into DRIVING the cars than just wiping them with a diaper and ooohhing and ahhhhing over their stellar provinance. Some of us are also not filthy rich with tens of millions of plop down on the real thing. So, is such an individual just SOL? Nope... thus the replica.

While I agree that this particular replica is very poorly done and it would not appeal to me, there are as you know plenty of others that are so good that other than the VIN they would fool even you. Lord Brockets SWB comes to mind. A replica that well done... I would love to own at less than 1/10th the price of the real thing.




Terry

 

I think a special section for replicas/fakes sounds like a good idea. Outing these cars would be considered a public service. When I photograph a Ferrari I want to know if it is the real deal or not. By being on this forum, I have learned a lot about spotting fakes, but not 100%. Speaking of fakes, at the first Cavallino Classic there was a 250 California Spyder that was moved off the lawn but I never did learn why. I assumed it was a replica of some sort, but I was very new to Ferrari then. Anyone remember this?

 

Start with the numbers of portholes in the front fenders.......
COPYRIGHT MARCEL MASSINI
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I respectfully disagree. I don't think I could have been fooled by that particular "SWB" (the one you mentioned). The first thing one should do (before buying a car such as a 250 GT SWB) is checking the individual and continuous history, without any gaps and major question marks. Do your homework! It's also called due diligence. Ask the experts.
I do agree, however, that Ferraris are meant to be driven!
Marcel Massini

 

So I guess F-chat will join the ranks of the Ferrari snobs who refuse to associate with you unless you are stinking rich and can own the real thing. What the real thing? Whatever THEY decide it is.

Sorry, such snobbery and ego are not why I am attracted to neat old cars. Nobody is trying to pass these replicas off as the real thing. Their owners are not horrible people to be scorned... they are car nuts who just happen to not be Bill Gates (or John Shirley). Determining the real thing from the replica is VERY easy to do in almost all cases... just post it here and you will have your answer in a snap.

Its sad that some folks are so threatened by the concept of replicas that they feel they cannot associate with them at all.




Terry

 

thanks, i prefer this model than the other one, Jess got a GTO before
but it keep always a 12 cylinder. i like too much this model.
it was for 40 birthday 250 GTO i ve got the DVD sooo great parcours.
so a 250 GTO was accidented you know certainly the sn?

 

I agree on checking its history... that is after all what you are paying the big bucks for. My point was relative to an inspection of the vehicle alone without regard to paperwork or documentation. My understanding is that the SWB in question was inspected (the car.. not the documentation) by a number of experts and all were shocked when it was revealed as a replica.

I place a distinction between a real replica and a "fake". The car posted before in this thread is a fake. It is not well done enough to qualify as a replica, its just wrong in too many ways. A replica should be so faithful to the original that the history and paperwork are just about the only way to tell it from the real thing. THAT I would like to own... a fake I do not want.




Terry

 

Yeah, I noticed that already on the frontal shot.

That's the part I don't understand about replica builders: You go through all this immense effort of replicating the real deal and obviously some very good craftsmen were at work here. Yet they fail to take one close look at a pic of the original to determine such obvious flaws? Same thing as the turn signals on the McBurnie Daytona replicas: They all have the orange lights on the inside instead the outside. No idea why.

I can understand the LHD vs RHD thing. I was talking to a friend of mine who is considering buying a Superformance GT40. You can select RHD or LHD and I would only pick RHD because of the original, but he said he'd only pick LHD for practicality of driving it on the street and being able to resell.

 

Marcel,

please forgive the thread hijack here, but.......Alaska???????

Please educate an enthusiastic-but-nowhere-near-as-knowledgeable-as-you vintage F lover - what's the story there?

Many thanks,

Neil

 

Why can't these people go for REAL CARS they can afford? The world is filled with wonderfull cars for every wallet! Best wishes, Kare

 

A replica certainly is not the real thing.
There are MANY people who are trying to pass replicas off as the real thing! Trust me, I have attended hundreds of Ferrari meetings in the past 30 years and have personally seen exactly this many times. Both in Europe and in USA. I can tell you that in my home country lives a wealthy collector of Ferraris who owns 20 real, authentic and genuine Ferraris, PLUS he also owns five Ferrari replicas ("250 GTO", "330 P4" and "250 LM" plus others) which he has tried to pass off as real ones, to get more credit from his bankers. I was there and have seen it with my own eyes and heard it with my own ears, right at the same meeting when his bankers were there too. And this is not the only such experience I have had over the years. It happens everywhere.
Marcel Massini