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430 What was the solution about exhaust back brackets/mounts?

Discussion in '360/430' started by Themaven, Nov 2, 2020.

  1. Themaven

    Themaven F1 Rookie
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    Darius
    I can’t find the thread where the merits of removing the rear exhaust brackets (I think?) on a F430 were discussed as a solution to the header problem. As I remember it, the argument was that these rigid mounts caused twisting of the headers/manifold, and for the manifolds to fail.

    Sorry if I have some of the technical terms wrong.

    One solution (apart from getting a new exhaust system) was to remove the rear brackets on the back boxes, I think.However I can’t find this thread.

    My car is going in for its annual today, and with a new lock down and dealer closure announced in the UK from later this week, I am now in a hurry to make sure they get it done this time, rather than me having to go in again just for this issue next year (the dealer is not close to me).

    Help much appreciated!
     
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  3. mike32

    mike32 F1 Rookie

    May 13, 2016
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    The easiest fix is to remove some of the oem brackets and replace them with expansion brackets from Capristo. The exhaust expands about 18 mms to the rear and the ferrari brackets do not allow this . Its an easy fix and does not take very long.
    Have a look on Capristo.de web site and they show the brackets plus a diagram of what to remove. When fitting the brackets, the trick is to load the springs up correctly so they will move when the exhaust gets hot.
    Note, the brackets to suit the oem exhaust are specific, if you fit the Capristo back box the bracket is different
     
  4. Themaven

    Themaven F1 Rookie
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    Excellent, thank you. I thought I remembered someone saying to take the brackets off completely but may be making it up!
     
  5. ttforcefed

    ttforcefed F1 World Champ
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    yes richardCH mentioned that if i remember correctly.
     
  6. bupilot

    bupilot Karting

    May 3, 2016
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    You are definitely not making it up. Many of us have removed the lower two brackets that attach the exhaust to the gearbox. I liked this solution better than the capristo mounts as I could never fully fix various vibrations/sounds with the capristo mounts at lower rpm that the stock mounts without the lower bracket didn't have. Additionally, I couldn't find evidence that the capristo mounts were better than the stock mounts without the lower brackets so seemed like wasted money for what they are trying to achieve. Below is a pic of the brackets to remove.

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  8. houtie123

    houtie123 Formula Junior

    Dec 9, 2007
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    FWIW I have Capristo mounts, but with a Capristo exhaust. I had the low revs rattle like you and it was infuriating ; always between 3-3500 revs and very loud. It took me a few years but its now properly sorted.

    it seems the Capristo brackets didn't come with installation instructions, and when attaching the mounts to the chassis. most garages put the large washers supplied on the outside of the bracket secured with a nut. It seems this issue was the root cause (Ferrari dealerships had no clue). The washer should be located to sit between the mount plate and the chassis. Then the vibration is gone.

    As to whether they are better than stock, as long as the springs are not over tightened, as mentioned above, they allow flex of the system at high temperatures, so reduce the possibility of the headers cracking
     
  9. mike32

    mike32 F1 Rookie

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    You need to tighten up the spring loaded bolts just enough so that they support the exhaust and move in the expansion slots when pushed by hand. i fitted mine slightly loose and then nipped them up over a few days so i can move them by hand. They work fine if you spend time getting the spring pressure right. A bit of high temp moly grease does no harm
     
  10. bupilot

    bupilot Karting

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    Nice, glad to hear you had success eliminating your vibration/rattle. I think the other question though is - are the capristo mounts worth the additional expense and better than stock, when we are talking stock with the lower brackets removed. With those lower brackets removed, the exhaust shouldn't be as constrained which could possibly lead to an increased ability for the system to expand/contract under thermal loads. Much better to delete a part than to add one! That being said, I don't have any evidence either is better.
     
  11. Themaven

    Themaven F1 Rookie
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    OK thank you. I will ask them to do this as I don’t have time to order Capristo mounts ahead of England’s Lockdown 2.0. It should be a quick and simple job, yes?
     
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  13. AandSC

    AandSC Karting
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    Shouldn’t take longer than an hour to remove the brackets.
     
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  14. mike32

    mike32 F1 Rookie

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    Its probably a stock item in Egham
     
  15. Sj_engr

    Sj_engr Karting

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    So when I bought my F430 one of the headers was cracked, driver side. To match the theory that the rigid stock brackets can cause a crack the headers it turned out that my passenger side exhaust bracket was cracked. Passenger side header is fine. So I have removed the rigid driver side bracket.
     
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  16. RichardCH

    RichardCH F1 Rookie
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    Yes just remove this nonsense, which btw didnt exist on a F360
     
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  17. Danedingerson

    Danedingerson Karting

    Dec 26, 2011
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    The exhaust would sometimes touch the body at the tailpipe on a 360. These brackets solved that .
     
  18. ttforcefed

    ttforcefed F1 World Champ
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    lol welcome back!
     
  19. Themaven

    Themaven F1 Rookie
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    So my dealership says they will do it, but don't recommend it and have never done it before. On the one hand, the wisdom of Fchat. On the other, a respected dealership who deal with a lot of classics also. (Joe Macari.)

    I am conflicted...

    Does anyone here think it's not a good idea or are you unanimous?
     
  20. janmante

    janmante Karting

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    This is old But here is what to do Buy the Capristo spring mounts YES they ARE the fix and help prevent damage AND it is de riguer to replace the stock manifolds w/ aftermarket ( your choice ) ASAP ! the stock OEM can fail and grenade a motor this is all a no brainer as we say! Just do it ! stop over thinking everything no need to re-invent the wheel ! Image Unavailable, Please Login
     
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  21. mike32

    mike32 F1 Rookie

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    Is it sorted now ?
     
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  22. CoreyNJ

    CoreyNJ Formula Junior
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    I'm not sure tying the exhaust/engine to the car's rear frame is the correct solution. Even the Capristo mount for their own exhaust attaches to the transmission case and supports the exhaust from below so that it can move with the engine but provide vibration and expansion.

    Putting on my engineering hat, I think we shouldn't discount the issue with the exhaust manifold could be cause by a failed bracket on one side flexing the exhaust in an abnormal way since the original Ferrari brackets did have a weld that tended to break from vibration and expansion. Ferrari made a revised beefy bracket that is even more rigid but still looks like it was welded by a grade school student. If Ferrari is onto something that you simply need a bracket that won't crack so the exhaust won't be flexed or torqued in an unexpected way, then the Fabspeed bracket solution is closest to what Ferrari intended, but the bean counters didn't allow them to do because of cost.

    Removing the mount may help with the rigid setup since there is still support but you do risk your exhaust tips hitting the body work under load or when your engine mounts start to go. I think Ferrari added the extra mounts to the 430 to keep the exhaust in line.

    Cheers,
    Corey
     
  23. CoreyNJ

    CoreyNJ Formula Junior
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    Ok slight correction here in the spirit of full disclosure...

    Apparently there are multiple Capristo brackets for their own exhaust. I have seen pictures of a spring plate below the exhaust connected to the transmission and a different one which is a bracket that attaches to the frame like their OEM exhaust bracket spring mount. Don't know if one superseded another.
     
  24. mike32

    mike32 F1 Rookie

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    I fitted the Capristo exp brackets to the oem silencer and removed a few bits of the oem brackets, i then fitted the Capristo manifolds. A couple of years later i fitted the Capristo silencer ( no valves) but i had to remove the exp brackets that fitted the oem silencer and refit another exp bracket that suited the Capristo silencer.
    The pic shows Capristo manifold/ Capristo Silencer with the correct exp bracket.
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  25. CoreyNJ

    CoreyNJ Formula Junior
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    What year did you buy your Capristo silencer/muffler? I guess that they switched to using the frame for all their brackets. I have seen a picture of a 430 with a spring plate for the Capristo mount under the Capristo silencer/muffler. The picture could have been old.
     
  26. janmante

    janmante Karting

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    My Rocket engineer friend insists that the Capristo spring mounts pretty much IS the solution and Also helps prevent the OEM exhaust manifolds fr failing as well as the system allows movement fr heat expansion and helps relieve stress that could well doom the system otherwise .
     
  27. mike32

    mike32 F1 Rookie

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    Thats about 12 months old, but i had another capristo bracket with the oem silencer and that was put on 4 plus years ago- both bolted to the same place on the rear bulkhead and picked up the fixing bolts on the tail pipe/ silencer joint. They have different bolt pitches so you need different bracket.
    When it is hot from a long run the bolts will move about 18 mms to the other end of the slots.
     

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