308 V12 conversion begins

Sh*t! I completely forgot you! I need a brain transplant. I'll get you next week.

 

Yo Mark.

Have you considered using PipeMax software http://www.maxracesoftware.com/pipemax36xp2.htm
or
Burns' X-design software http://www.burnsstainless.com/Xdesign/xdesign.html ?

 

My software (dynomation 5)does a pretty good job but I had the guys at Burns run it through their Xdesign software too and now I'm trying to build the system they recomended. I can't sim multiple collectors. Mufflers are another matter though......no software seems to understand them.

 

The solution is simple: No mufflers!

With the sweet sound of a V12, who needs those stinkin' mufflers anyway??

 

I've got a muffler design in my head that I created in the 9th grade. Looooong time ago. LOL I haven't really seen it copied PERFECTLY, but I have seen it copied, by Ferrari. Looks a little something like the picture I attached.
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Agreed but no mufflers hurts torque and low rpm throttle response.

 

Who needs low rpm throttle response? Anything below 7000 is a waste of Mark's efforts!

 

Add a positive displacement supercharger and it will make up for the lack of mufflers or use a pair of turbos for mufflers. With no fuel tanks in the back there is plenty of room for some remote turbos!

 

and my ears. I don't like loud cars.

 

I may do something like this if the single 3" is too loud for my taste....I want to try simple first though.

 

Head gasket guys say the biggest bore that they can make a composite gasket for on my bore spacing is 86mm giving me 453cc/cyl and 5437 total. I'll talk to them more, but it looks like it a 5.4liter unless I go to a copper gasket or pay for tooling for MLS gaskets.....neither of which are all that appealing.

EFI car runs so it's close to going home

 

The head gaskets are bought, $94 each and will ship in 4-5 days. When I first talked to them they thought 6-8 weeks and $106 or $160 each (I was in the car and didn’t hear exactly) but since I sent a CAD file the order goes straight to production at the same price and lead time as any straight 6. There is no minimum order and since it’s only a few days to get more I just bought 2.

This gasket will have a part number, so all you guys sitting on the side waiting to build your own 453TR engine can just call and order .

As a side 308 related item V8 gaskets would be cheaper, I’d guess about 2/3 the price. The last QV head gaskets I bought were $200 each I think so these would save you a lot of money. They told me they just did a set for an F40 and they had made 400 gaskets in the past. They make the MLS (which will not work with stock cylinder liner protrusions) for 308 and 328 gaskets so they must have the CAD files and getting a set should be as easy as asking.

 

A little progress. Victor and I pulled the engine and the gas tanks then put the engine back so maybe tonight I can finally take a look at the headers. I need to give the shop a good cleaning so it’s possible to watch Victor and work. He loves being in the shop and helping, I just need to make it safe for him so this is my plan to start getting a lot more shop time as soon as EFI car is gone (I don’t want him anywhere near someone else paint with tools in his hands). Obviously no welding and very little machining with him in the shop, but there is a lot a wrenching/fitting type work to be done that he would love to help with.

I was looking at bent tubing to make the headers. Burns has 3 bend radii to choose from, but charges about $35 each. Places like Summit only have 1 radius but only charge $15 each. Bent tubing costs about the same regardless of how many degrees it’s bent so the plan is to just buy 180 degree bends and cutout the number of degrees I need…this is the cheapest way to do it and honestly I don’t see any down side. The odds of needing exactly a full standard bend seem like about zero. This whole multiple radii to choose from complicates things a bit by adding a whole other variable to play with but should allow a nicer finished product.

My buddy who had borrowed my mig welder dropped it back off. I like the mig for tacking in tight places because I can hold with 1 hand and tack with the other easily….so I’m ready when I get to the actually making them part.

Cam guy is not answering his phone so he’s either extended his vacation or playing catch-up.

The head gaskets should be here today or tomorrow, hopefully I didn’t make any mistakes and they fit.

 

aaaaaaaaaah ... I need to hang out here more often ... I just finished making my 308 "shim" head gaskets. Was that Cometic? That's a good deal but it was pretty rewarding making my own ... hopefully they'll seal and it'll be even more rewarding LOL.


cheers

 

Yes Cometic.

Are you wire ringing the combustion chamber?...I think I remember you saying you were?? if so the wire will seal the combustion chamber pretty well then you can paint the liquid form-a-gasket around the water and oil passages to seal them, I think they sel it as "aviation sealant" these days. I can't see how that would leak and was my 2nd choice plan.

 

Those guys 'splained me $150/pc ... still probably worth buying vs. making but ... "Had a fridge full of beer that afternoon" LOL.

I'm trying to not wire the top of the sleeves on this first go around ... probably a stupid experiment but I have an engine stand to start her up on and re-tq/check etc. I also made the gaskets out of "soft" aluminum and was going to "coat" them with aluminum or stainless spray paint . I tq'd them on there already and was checking the imprint from the sleeve protrusion which I was hoping would be adequate ... time will tell.

cheers

 

I think they told me about $160 each when I first called, but when a sent a DXF the price dropped to $94 each because no other engineering was required. The way he said it made it sound like a V8 gasket would be cheaper.

I've used Alum paint to seal head gaskets on air cooled engines and it seemed to work. The sleeve protruson is what scares me a bit and makes me thing sealant.....I don't know how think a coating of paint is, .002" seems like a lot though.

 

Hi Mark,

Glad to see you're making progress. I was starting to have withdrawal symptoms since you hadn't posted anything in a while.

I built a set of headers a few years ago and I just bought a pile of 180 deg. bends. I cut and fit as needed. The 180's were just the ticket and, as you said, the best cost-wise. There is enough straight on each bend you probably won't need anything else.

And building headers is very gratifying.

T...

 

Mark, can we get contact info for them?

 

The head gaskets look perfect so that's good.

i cut up the foam for the front header and layed out something the seems to work and of course the collectors will end up on bends and a pain in the butt to make. There was really no way to get a picture of it, Maybe when I pull it out I can snap a decent pic.
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www.cometic.com

I spoke to eli anthony
440-354-0777 Ext. 143

 

I was starting to get serious withdrawal too.

I think I'm seeing 40+ hours here, I'm not sure gratifying is the word I would pick

 

It's about time you posted some up to date picture.

Nice gaskets.


Now what's this about someone is on vacation/MIA ??

 

I got hold of him this afternoon....vacation ran long and he did not get the test lobes out. This weekend though for sure

 

Now that I know about what the headers and exhaust system are going to look like I started making up a basic materials list...I'm looking at about $2k.....maybe a bit more

I should be ready to start ordering stuff in a couple more days.

I'm thinking I'm going to do everything 304SS, 18g unless some oen talks me into 16g??

I'm thinking a flex cloupling at the end of the headers so nothing wants to crack as the engine bounces around unless some one talks me out of this.

I'm thinking 3/8" think flanges with 6 pipes on 1 flange.

I'm think I need to think long and hard about how the front header gets installed. It has to be in before the engine but then needs to have the exist end up on top of the bellhousing and I'm not sure that is possible without making the header at least 2 pieces.