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Ferrari Knock off tool

Discussion in 'Vintage (thru 365 GTC4)' started by Diablo, Feb 2, 2008.

  1. Diablo

    Diablo Formula Junior

    Hi,

    Just wondering if anyone has a source for a tool to fit around the 3-point knock off center lug nut.

    I have seen people make them, but I just don't have the time or skill.


    I think baum tools has them, but was wondering if any one else has had luck.
     
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  3. El Wayne

    El Wayne Global Moderator
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    Aug 1, 2002
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  4. Randy Forbes

    Randy Forbes Formula Junior

    Jul 14, 2006
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    #3 Randy Forbes, Feb 2, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    While not a special tool, as such, I've seen knock-offs tightened with the two-hammer method hold up without blemishes for decades.

    Holding a soft lead hammer firmly against the K/O, strike the (opposite head of the) lead hammer with a second heavy hammer. The second hammer can be either lead, copper or steel, but the heavier the better.

    Obviously, and as stated above, you could make a "socket" to go over the spinner, beit 2 ears or 3. But for any kind of quantity production, it would be best to contact a machinist running CNC equipment.

    I make my own tools for onesy-twosies, but it would be too time consuming to make duplicates.

    A one-off tool I recently made for the rear hub 2-3/16" (8-sided) nuts on my Healey:
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  5. Horsefly

    Horsefly F1 Veteran

    May 14, 2002
    6,929
    That looks like exactly what I needed when removing the wheel on an MGA chassis that I have. The factory "lug wrench" is a goofy looking thing like a giant stamped steel wrench with a short handle. Fortunately a few raps with a hammer losened up the giant hub nut.
     
  6. John Vardanian

    John Vardanian F1 Rookie

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    Good job Randy. If you are like me, the worry is not so much marring the lug nut, but it's the rim. After slipping and hitting the rims a few times I decided to get the "special tool". The deeper dish Borranis are especially a problem in this regard.

    john
     
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  8. Randy Forbes

    Randy Forbes Formula Junior

    Jul 14, 2006
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    Hmm, deep dish, I can see where that would be a problem. The two hammer method works best on wheels where the K/O actually stands proud of the rim.
     
  9. Randy Forbes

    Randy Forbes Formula Junior

    Jul 14, 2006
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    I'm surprised the MGA didn't have spinners. They didn't stick the octogonal K/O nuts on the MGB (and Healey, Triumph, etc.) until January 1968.

    Another change snowballed by everyone's favorite consumer advocate. Unsafe at any deed...
     
  10. shill288

    shill288 Formula Junior

    Feb 24, 2005
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    Mike Kumor at Seaport has them and work great.

    The two hammer method is the way to go if you're going to use hammers. And, if you're going to use hammers, forget about the 1000, 1600 or 2200 gram hammers. Go right to a real soft lead 8 lb job. That will knock the spinner off with ease.

    Steve
     
  11. 4redude

    4redude Formula Junior

    Jan 13, 2005
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    FYI, Mike Kumor passed away a couple months ago, succumbing to cancer. His company Seaport Mold & Casting should still be able to make the tools though.

    RIP Mike.
     
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  13. xs10shl

    xs10shl Formula 3

    Dec 17, 2003
    2,017
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    Sorry to hear about Mike.

    I personally haven't had much luck with his tool, especially on the front wheels - if the knockoff is securely fastened, the wheel will just keep spinning around on a smooth concrete floor as you try to unscrew it. I've found that a plastic hammer from sears seems to do a better job tightening and loosening.

    Incidentally, you can make one of his tools yourself by going to a tool store and buying the socket, and cutting the grooves yourself. But it's probably just as easy to buy the thing and forget about it.
     
  14. IanB

    IanB F1 World Champ
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    Jun 15, 2006
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    I'm surprised to hear this. I use a Seaport tool with a 3' bar and have never been able to spin the front wheel if the car is on the ground. I've never had a KO come loose either.

    The correct torque for the KO is in most workshop manuals, from memory its 340lb for a Daytona. I suspect that KO's get over-tightened, although it would take a huge torque load to strip the thread, well beyond what you could do with a hammer.

    ps. Nader managed to get eared knockoffs banned in the US, but happily not in other countries. I'd love to see evidence of anyone ever being injured by a Ferrari eared KO!
     
  15. John Vardanian

    John Vardanian F1 Rookie

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    I use Kumor's device as well. It is well worth the $150.

    Actually, I am pretty sure, (at least in my cars I'm sure) that the nut is tightened till it bottoms out on the hub. So, there is no need for a torque wrench. I use an 18 inch breaker bar and am able to accomplish it.

    Tom K is right. The tire can sometimes spin in place. My garage floor is 50+ years old and every now and then it happens. I just jam a wooden wedge and that does it.

    john
     
  16. Ferrari_250tdf

    Ferrari_250tdf Formula Junior

    Mar 3, 2005
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  17. Ricambi America

    Ricambi America F1 World Champ
    Sponsor Owner

    Hill Engineering is working on it... should be out in Q2. Prototypes have been built, revisions spec'd, designs altered, etc. etc.

    Paul and I spoke about it extensively at Cavallino in January. It will work with a variety of ear-configurations, and be the kind of thing that screams "Hill Engineering" (uncompromising quality, superior materials, etc. etc.). It won't be released until its correct, but I can assure you it'll be a fantastic addition to any shop's tool bin, or the tool chest of any vintage Ferrari owner.

    If you would like to get onto our pre-production wait list, email me your name, car/year, and if possible the specific KO on your car (i.e. "3-ear flared", "3-ear non-flared", etc)

    Kindly,
    Daniel
    www.ricambiamerica.com
     
  18. jsa330

    jsa330 F1 Veteran
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    The Kumor tool didn't work well for me; it bent and is now a bookend in my garage.

    I got a lead hammer from Hendrix wire wheel; just wrap a towel behind the knockoff to shield the spokes.
     
  19. parkerfe

    parkerfe F1 World Champ

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    TRutlands sells them...
     
  20. mikegt

    mikegt Karting

    Apr 4, 2004
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    Which ones does tRutland carry?


    Ouch! It's 299 EUR: http://www.shop-016.de/Oldtimertools-p31h2s19-FMB_32.html
    - looks pretty sweet though.

    I have Kumor's tool. It works pretty well -- even better when you put some 2" sections of 3/8" fuel hose to line the edges where it meets the KO. I've spun my tires as well.

    - mike
     
  21. shill288

    shill288 Formula Junior

    Feb 24, 2005
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    Well, the Seaport tool works for me. But, the ears will bend over time. I use a Snap-On breaker bar to get the knock-offs off and a torque wrench to get the 325 lb-ft to put them on. Same torque as GTO, TR, etc.

    The other technique I use on the road when I don't the wrench is the lead hammer on knock-off and use the other lead hammer to hit it. Works great without screwing up the knockoff.

    Steve
     
  22. RP

    RP F1 World Champ

    Feb 9, 2005
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    I have one that I used on my Boxer. It was from a company in Ohio, has protectective covering so as to not scratch the knock off. The Boxer has since been destroyed, so I plan to sell the tool and the 350 ft/lb 3/4" torque wrench I needed for the tool. PMif you are interested.
     
  23. Ricambi America

    Ricambi America F1 World Champ
    Sponsor Owner

    After a long wait, and many different tests and designs, Hill Engineering is now ready with the ultimate 3-ear knockoff tool!

    http://www.ricambiamerica.com/product_info.php?products_id=335921

    There might be cheaper tools on the market. There might be smashed up lead hammers with a little life still in them. There might even been a nicked Borrani in your garage. We doubt however, you'll find a better lifetime solution than the newly released Hill Engineering 3-ear knockoff tool. Try just one product from Hill Engineering, and you'll be convinced, there is no finer manufacturer of customer Ferrari parts anywhere in the world.

    Our first supply of these will leave London in approximately 7 days. Preorders now accepted. Free shipping anywhere in the USA during the preorder period.
     
  24. shill288

    shill288 Formula Junior

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    I'll give it a try and report back.

    Steve
     
  25. Jack-the-lad

    Jack-the-lad Four Time F1 World Champ
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    Will it work with straight eared (Campy) and cranked eared (Borrani) spinners that would have been original on a 330GTC?

    Thanks.

    Jack
     
  26. alberto

    alberto Formula 3
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    Does it work on Lamborghini type straight eared knockoffs and on Borrani 42 type bent eared ones?
     
  27. Edward 96GTS

    Edward 96GTS F1 Rookie
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    Nov 1, 2003
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    is it metal on metal or is there some kind of cushioning material?
     
  28. Ricambi America

    Ricambi America F1 World Champ
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    #25 Ricambi America, Aug 18, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    I apologize for not replying to this thread sooner...


    1. The new Hill Engineering tool is designed for Ferrari spinners (3-ear cranked only) which measure approx 132mm from the outer part of the ear to the opposite side as shown in the picture below.

    2. It will not fit a 2-ear spinner, or the smaller 118mm spinner found on the 275.

    3. The driver of the tool is made alloy steel and the main body is made from Aluminium - The aluminium is much softer that the chrome and base material of the spinner itself. This is very similar to the CS01 chrome saver socket that Hill manufacturers for the later Ferrari lugbolts.
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