"High Performance Air Intake" on eBay

Was just doing my occasional "ferrari 328" search on eBay motors, and this came up:

Ferrari 308, 328, Mondial High Performance Air Intake
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=38634&item=7981538850&rd=1

(Absolutely no affiliation.)

I did a search and didn't find any references to this... Just wanted to get people's thoughts. Obviously I'm very skeptical. I'm mostly interested in the technical merits of the "claim" about smoother/more air flow.

I looked on the durable1.com website and this does not appear to be a product of theirs.

The ad seems to be relatively well written. According to the auction, they've sold at least 10 and are working on their next batch of 12.

Can this really have a net effect on the overall system?

 

For one thing it looks much better than the original tractor hose and as far as flow, It must flow much smoother since there are no ribs to obstruct air flow.
A freind of mine has a carbon fiber one in his Mondial made by durable1.

 

I just saw that also. Logically, I would think that a smooth pipe would flow better than an accordian style (or pleated) hose. I don't know how much of a difference it would make, but I don't think it would hurt.

 

$100 for that much of an improvement in the *looks* of your engine compartment is easily worth it.

 

I have wondered about those things before. For example, since the openings upstream of the tube are the same size, is more air really getting to the intake? Wouldn't you need to keep opening things up all the way to the passenger door to really get more air in?

 

I believe the reason that the flex tube was that you are connecting the engine (non fixed) to a device (FD) that is mounted to the body (fixed). The flex tube could asorb the engine motion but what happens now when you add a rigid tube in place of the flex tube? You have removed the device that Isolates flex and viabration between a fixed and a non fixed device and something will eventually give due the stresses now placed....I hope it is not the top of the FD that cracks.

I would go slow on this one, while it looks good it may cause you great expense. A $100 device could (and I it believe WILL cause you $1000 + in damage). The FD is mounted on "lords" mounts but they will never hold up to the new stresses.

If you are looking for a replacement that looks good try using Silicone Hose there are many sources that supply large diameter molded air interconnect hoses. Do a Google search on Silicone hose.

Paul

 

Very good point, thanks for the observation. I was looking at buying this part myself but can see why the stock piece makes sense.

 

Nice points. Also, on carb cars, you must not have vibrations telegraphed to the carbs because you will get uneven fuel pickup from the float bowls. I don't know if that would be an issue on a Ferrari but it sure is on my Lotus. I MUST use a flex hose from the air cleaner box to the airbox.

Ken

 

Any problem with it, T-Yoro?

 

This does indeed look like an interesting concept. Perhaps we can find something made of rubber hose with bend as an equivalent. i see he did use robber on both sides, i assume to absorb some of the vibration of the engine to chassis. CF may be light, but would look out of place in the 308 engine bay (all other things being stock).

 

I think that hose would make my "Vornado" work better.

 

Paul makes a good point but, still, is more air really available between the cleaner and the intake that is not getting in now due to the "smaller" factory hose?

In other words, if you measure the amount of air coming out of the bottom of the air cleaner in front of the factory hose and then measure amount of air coming out of the end of the factory hose in front of the throttle body, is it really that much less? If it is the same, a bigger tube won't help anyway.

 

Looks like he's just using a couple of pieces of hose with hose clamps on eachend.
While the reaction rod, won't let the engine move very far, I believe that Sloan83qv is right, the hose sections & lords connectors are going to be hard put to flex enough to protect the fuel distributor's thin cross-section. The throttle body's probably thick enough so it isn't at risk.

I like the Si hose idea, plenty smooth & slick on the inside, yet with plenty of flex. Either a black or red Si 90 degree hose section would look pretty nice.

Probably would want to have Kermit open up the throttle body to 70mm at the same time.

The air passageway from the fender intake thru the airbox has plenty of cross-sectional area, at worst i'd guesstimate that the air box intake is probably 2x the throttle body area, so shouldn't need enlarging.

 

The Carbon Fiber prototype on Randy's Mondy is holding up very well, as it has a sufficient length of hose on both ends to allow for movement. Pauls observation on that is right on, it is an area of concern.
Unfortunately, on the way to the dyno appointment, I filled up at the local Shell, not knowing they had a water problem. Turns out, we didnt even get the A/F ratio dialed in before the filters were so plugged it wouln't put out enough pressure to open the injectors, and shut down @ 7000 RPM like it had a rev limiter.I liked the loks of the E-bay unit. It appears that it is well thought out on the clamps, I don't know about hose length for movement though. I had originally looked at aluminum tube as I have always thought the Tractor Hose was a loser. Aluminum transmits heat too well to my way of thinking, and the increase in temperature may very well offset the gains in flow. A thermal barrier coating would cure that however. On the infamous "tractor Tube", I wonder just how much it does effect the flow? as mentioned earlier, the openings are close to the same size. But.. Could it be possible that the grooves are "dead areas" much like the dimples on golf balls? I hear the new high tech racing sailboats have that texture on the hulls, as it has been proven to reduce drag. Interesting thoughts, the dyno knows!
Kermit

 

You can order it from www.motovanti.com, but is very strange the absence of any date (address, e-mail,phone) of the manufacturer.
What do you think?
Is it safe to order from the site?

 

I am able to comment on this subject as I own a company that specializes in the design and manufacture of performance carbon fiber intake systems (along with other carbon fiber and composite components). These are the observations I have made upon observing the product in the pictures:

- The first thing that stuck out to me was the issue that the pipe is fixed with little provision for engine movement. Despite the reaction rod, I definatly think that this is a problem waiting to happen.

- The e-bay listing is well written as it makes no specific claims as to performance gains; so there is no misrepresentation here.

- From experience I can say that the corrugated hose is not a very efficient way of transferring the inlet air. Our tests have found the best throttle response and driveability from a hard pipe with a slight texture to it. Totally smooth is better at wide open throttle but at transient throttle openings, the slight texture is better.

- Lastly dyno testing an intake is all but useless as it is impossible to replicate the accelerating airflow over the inlet area ,that is present during driving , while performing a dyno run. 1/4 mile acceleration tests are a much better way of guaging performance.

Now for my offer. If there is enough interest, I am willing to make a batch of carbon fiber intakes for 308, 328, and Mondial owners. These would consist of a carbon fiber pipe (containing our proprietary thermal barrier in its construction) along with a EPDM rubber coupling for the inlet size and a flex absorption coupling for the FD size. The carbon would be a perfect show finish which our company specializes in. If anyone is interested, just post (I expect pricing to be in the low to mid 100's USD).

 

I think Nuvolari's offer is quite a good one (and would take him up on it except I ripped my FI off for carbs) but I just want to post this link as a quick show of what is out there in Silicone land, this may the wrong size and angle but it gives you and idea what is out there.


http://stores.channeladvisor.com/vertexnow/Silicone/Bends/45%20Degree/

Here is another one:

http://www.sfsperformance.co.uk/
135 degree bend large diameter. 6.5mm to 76mm bore (ID)
Image Unavailable, Please Login

 

I just thought of another thing; So what if you put a bigger tube on it if the throttle body diameter is the same? Blowing more air TO the TB won't help if you keep it the same size. Right?

I am still not sure about this thing (and I love bolt on goodies). If the dimensions on either side of the hose are the same ( 1.coming out of the airbox and 2.going into the intake) how can just enlarging a single piece in the middle help at all?

Not just the TB either but the intake runners also. Shouldn't they be enlarged as well for a measurable benefit from this thing?

 

A quick Whois check on the domain name shows this contact info:


Registrant:
Hudson, Ink.
40 Monroe St.
Montgomery, AL 36104
US

Domain Name: MOTOVANTI.COM

Administrative Contact, Technical Contact:
Hudson, Ink. [email protected]
40 Monroe St.
Montgomery, AL 36104
US
334-262-1115

Record expires on 02-Nov-2005.
Record created on 02-Nov-2004.
Database last updated on 24-Jun-2005 18:33:17 EDT.

 

so... any thoughts yet on my previous questions? Just wondering.

 

The concept is to feed the throttle body with a less turbulent flow of air thereby increasing its volume. From experience I can say that this part will not make a 'kick in the behind' difference however you can probably expect to get a slightly sharper throttle response and increased driveability. The E-bay ad does not claim miracles and I would not expect any either.

 

Anybody know of a similar hose for us carb guys? We have a tractor-type rubber connector from the side intake scoop to the airbox, but it's pretty short. Might not be enough area to matter... Also, do carbs benefit as much as FI from smoother, less turbulent airflow?

Greg

 

Thanks, so really if one is one your car the airflow really isn't increased, just "smoothed" and the possibility (Paul Sloan) exists that it could flex and fracture from engine movement.

 

The flex hose that connects the body air duct and the carburetor air cleaner is just a bit smaller than 4.5 inches. I have heard that the Ferrari part is a bit pricey, (surprise???).

My PO solved this problem with a 4 inch sized calder coupling, a rubber sleeve with two stainless clamps designed to join 4 inch cast iron to 4 inch ABS house sewer line. The coupler appears to have been new at the time it was installed. It works well, that is it is smooth, it flexes and it seals the two pieces together. Cost about $6.99 usd.

For the short run from the inlet pipe to the air cleaner assembly, any hose would probably have an undetectable difference. Clearing the sound deadening mesh and insulation out of the aircleaner would probably be the best improvement in flow, (and sound). I haven't done this yet but have read many posts.

with malice aforethought,
chris

 

The flex hose that connects the body air duct and the carburetor air cleaner is just a bit smaller than 4.5 inches. I have heard that the Ferrari part is a bit pricey, (surprise???).

My PO solved this problem with a 4 inch sized calder coupling, a rubber sleeve with two stainless clamps designed to join 4 inch cast iron to 4 inch ABS house sewer line. The coupler appears to have been new at the time it was installed. It works well, that is, it is smooth, it flexes and it seals the two pieces together. Cost about $6.99 usd.

For the short run from the inlet pipe to the air cleaner assembly, any hose would probably have an undetectable difference. Clearing the sound deadening mesh and insulation out of the aircleaner would probably be the best improvement in flow, (and sound). I haven't done this yet but have read many posts.

with malice aforethought,
chris