| Author | Message | ||
| Paul Brennan (Turboqv)
Junior Member Username: Turboqv Post Number: 86 Registered: 3-2003 |
Mark, I will get you the airpump part # on Tuesday. Have a good weekend | ||
| Mark Eberhardt (Me_k)
Member Username: Me_k Post Number: 667 Registered: 5-2002 |
Paul, good info. I didn't realize there was an electric air pump available. Here in PA, the counties near Philly (me)have smog testing - no visual requirement, just tail pipe. The rest of the state doesn't, you can still drive the car even though it won't pass smog, but it ends up costing about $500 per year, you pay the garage to fix an emissions related thing, like doing a tune-up and they give you a 1 year exemption if it still fails. But if you do pass and drive the car less than 5k per year good thing I have 2 speedos), it's exempt in the future, so I really want to get it through and didn't think I would without an air source for the cat...I need to get me one of them pumps.. | ||
| Paul Brennan (Turboqv)
Junior Member Username: Turboqv Post Number: 85 Registered: 3-2003 |
heres the ticket!!!! Norwood in Dallas installed a high flow cat with a GM electric airpump mounted in the trunk under the antena. and it passed CA emissions a few people here told me it would be $$$$$$$$$$ to make it legal. NOT!!!! i will disconnect the airpumpo and unbolt the cat after it passes the sniffer. (.064 idle CO) NORWOOD plans on having a kit in the near future | ||
| billy bob (Fatbillybob)
Member Username: Fatbillybob Post Number: 335 Registered: 8-2002 |
Hey how are you guys with the hot 308's getting past smog in your states? What is the trick? Do you guys take all the stuff off every two years to pass the sniffer and the visual? | ||
| Alan Ing (Alan)
New member Username: Alan Post Number: 18 Registered: 2-2002 |
If your rebuild involves new pistons, you might as well just add some 10:1 or 10.5:1 JE or Weisco pistons. They cost less than NOS and are of much better quality. Even if you go for a stock 8.8:1, the aftermarket pistons are worth a look at. Of course if you do this, buy a set of performance Cams to go with them. I got mine from Modena Engineering about two years ago (approximately $1,500 US) for the whole set. Of course if you have your mind set on a Supercharger or Turbocharger, forget what I said as a higher CR ratio would then be a bad idea. | ||
| 308 GTS (Muteki)
New member Username: Muteki Post Number: 8 Registered: 8-2003 |
I would say there are a few high rollers here...hehehe, I am a middle income man. I will go one step at a time. I have run into some luck. I found a new mechanic and he said my old engine is rebuildable and the other mechanic was full of it. I think I am going to do this, since its cheapest. I'll keep it stock for now and maybe put on a supre charger or something later after I finish paying for this project. Thanks guys. | ||
| George LaFleur (308geo)
Junior Member Username: 308geo Post Number: 58 Registered: 12-2002 |
O.K., that kind of shoots my idea to pieces. Dang. I still may try it in the future $$$ willing. My thinking was to keep it "kind of" Ferrari stock. Sort of like the fact that I swapped out my 390mm rims for '83 QV stock rims. | ||
| Paul Brennan (Turboqv)
Junior Member Username: Turboqv Post Number: 82 Registered: 3-2003 |
the good Doctor is right Do this and you will blow away most anything.  | ||
| Dr Tommy Cosgrove (Vwalfa4re)
Intermediate Member Username: Vwalfa4re Post Number: 1275 Registered: 5-2001 |
You will need more then just the engine from the 328. You'll need ALL the FI and electrical boxes. etc. Really, for the money you'll spend on this you can build your 78 into a seriously fast car and still save enough to spend a few days in Hawaii. I am not kidding. | ||
| 308 GTS (Muteki)
New member Username: Muteki Post Number: 4 Registered: 8-2003 |
So the 328 is the way to go? Will the transaxle bolt right up or will I have to swap it too? Also, I have a new and really nice DIS with crank trigger for my carbed motor. I was told it will work on the QV motor, but will it work on the 328 motor? Thanks for all the info, you guys have really enlightened me into some very interesiting facts. | ||
| dave handa (Davehanda)
Intermediate Member Username: Davehanda Post Number: 1739 Registered: 5-2001 |
Stock North American market 328 engine is rated at 260hp, the Euro cars 270hp... | ||
| George LaFleur (308geo)
Junior Member Username: 308geo Post Number: 56 Registered: 12-2002 |
I have the "slow" Ferrari: 1981 308 GTSi (US version). It was reported to have 255 hp on the carbed cars, 205 on mine, and 240 on a QV; I forgot the 328 hp. I have added a Tubi exhaust, K&N airfilter, removed the cats (test pipes) and the airpump, and blocked the hoses for these. I'm guess-timating I now have 220-225 hp; not bad considering that I do not street race it. When I have the money I plan on swapping a stock 328 motor into my car. The 328 engine was supposed to be the "best ot the bunch" as far as the series is concerned. I have heard it called "bullet proof" and I believe the hp is the highest. The 3.2 ehgine will supposedly mate right in. I think a good 328 engine can be had for $6K-$9K. Why don't I just get a 328? I personally perfer the 308's front end look better. | ||
| Mark Eberhardt (Me_k)
Member Username: Me_k Post Number: 665 Registered: 5-2002 |
The stock mass flow stuff is pretty restrictive. Hp increase with boost is a pretty simple calc, but my engine made way more hp than it should have with the boost I added. The only way the numbers worked is if I put in 270 hp. I just saw 30-40 posted on this thread http://www.ferrarichat.com/discus/messages/112/300846.html?1061698159 So I believe it since it matches my experience. It could be something else causing it, but I don't see what. | ||
| Dr Tommy Cosgrove (Vwalfa4re)
Intermediate Member Username: Vwalfa4re Post Number: 1273 Registered: 5-2001 |
No kidding? 30hp on an otherwise stock QV with just the addition of the different EFI? That's more then a stock 328. | ||
| Mark Eberhardt (Me_k)
Member Username: Me_k Post Number: 664 Registered: 5-2002 |
The easiest way to convert to EFI is to start with the factory mechanical FI manifold. If you have a carb engine, call a salvage yard and get an FI intake to put on. It won't flow like an 8 throttle body set up which is the best, but it is pretty good and a lot cheaper. Removing the bosch stuff and putting on EFI will add about 30 hp to a stock QV, I would guess 15-20 to a 2Vi, probably nothing to a carb engine except improved drivabilty. No internal mods are required. On the factory injected cars, I think it is a good first step since without it, there as no significant mods that can be done. The stock cams are really too small to make good hp and you can't change them as long as you have stock injection. Unfortunately it isn�t exactly a bolt-on mod. Most people will need the help of someone experienced to get it installed and tuned. The parts will run around $3k, probably another $1k to have it installed. I have been using haltech for 3 years and have been pretty happy with it. It will run the twin stock distributor or let you add DIS. The electromotive is also pretty good from what I�ve heard, but is DIS only. Nick probably has fuel and ignition maps that are pretty close for the electromotive if you buy from him, I would guess the same is true for Norwood. | ||
| Greg Rodgers (Joechristmas)
Member Username: Joechristmas Post Number: 808 Registered: 3-2001 |
That is what I meant. Throttle bodies. Actually when I spoke with them over a year ago they had no choice but to use the linkages from my Webers to make the throttle bodies work correctly. This was for an EFI setup using a TEC-II. Plus at this time they need to machine my air horns to fit and preferred for me to send my intake manifold to get it setup. The cost/benefit didn't seem very good but I will say that anytime I left a message I was always called back promptly. Hope your setup works well. | ||
| Alan Ing (Alan)
New member Username: Alan Post Number: 16 Registered: 2-2002 |
Just for your information. I have the TWM induction set up for carbed 308s. It uses the stock carb manifolds. TWM sells replacement Throttle bodies for the 40 DCNF weber carbs. Unfortunately, the stock linkage will not work and a custom one will need to be developed as the throttle shafts are located higher than the webers (This is so the injectors are after the throttle plates and not before). To get the injectors to fire from the center of the V towards the outside of the motor, you will need to rotate two of the throttle bodies 180 degrees. This will mean that the throttle linkage needs to be designed that it rotates in the horizontal plane, not vertical like the stock setup. TWM helped me with a new design, but did not have the cylinder heads to mock up everything correctly. Its close, but is not yet ideal. Luckily I have access to a machine shop so I will attempt to correct it when I have some time. Sorry, no real world tests for the setup as it has not been installed. Pictures of my setup can be found on Nick's site although he did not sell it to me. I bought mine direct from TWM, but perhaps Nick can offer a discount. Pictures are also on the TWM site. | ||
| Greg Rodgers (Joechristmas)
Member Username: Joechristmas Post Number: 806 Registered: 3-2001 |
Tommy there are all sorts of EFI setups. You can do with direct fire and EFI together or just EFI, etc. There is EM Tec-3 out now but the Tec-2 will work also. There is Haltech E9. Between Haltech and EM you can find what you are looking for. TWM induction makes manifolds and they even have DCNF manifolds to FI for the carb 308s but they are very expensive plus you have to use your linkages off of your stock carbs. I know you have a QV but I am just elaborating. HTHs. | ||
| Dr Tommy Cosgrove (Vwalfa4re)
Intermediate Member Username: Vwalfa4re Post Number: 1272 Registered: 5-2001 |
Mark - what EFI system are you referring to? Is it a complete aftermarket system that can be used with a stock engine so that it will already be there when it's time for the rebuild? Or is it best to leave it off until you go with the new insides too? | ||
| Mark Eberhardt (Me_k)
Member Username: Me_k Post Number: 663 Registered: 5-2002 |
I forgot, a QV with aftermarket EFI injection controls should make about 270 hp, maybe 300 with cams and pistons...the stock unit is very restrictive, the intake manifold is OK though, no real need for custom intake IMO (that would add another $4k or so). Plan $3k for the EFI stuff though. | ||
| Mark Eberhardt (Me_k)
Member Username: Me_k Post Number: 662 Registered: 5-2002 |
There have been a couple threads discussing 2V cams and I think the consensus was that 76-77 are the only 240hp 308s since they have cams with more lift and duration than 78-79 cars with cat and the 2Vi cars. The QVs are 235 hp (197 rwhp). I guess with any project, the path is determined by the budget. I've found that if I'm honest with myself right up front about what I can spend, it makes it much easier to make decisions. Any rebuild will cost about $5k if you do the work yourself. It would probably be cheaper to by aftermarket electronics if you decide to go with a QV. I think I would do cams, pistons and exhaust and look for 260-280 hp. Much more and the price goes up fast. To your other question, my blower fits under a stock hood as do all the turbo set ups I've seen. | ||
| Jim E (Jimpo1)
Intermediate Member Username: Jimpo1 Post Number: 2448 Registered: 7-2001 |
One of the recent issues of Forza had an article about a 308 rebuild. As I recall, it specified which pistons Norwoods recommends. | ||
| Dr Tommy Cosgrove (Vwalfa4re)
Intermediate Member Username: Vwalfa4re Post Number: 1271 Registered: 5-2001 |
I was unaware of any difference between the stock/US 1978 motor and the 77 or 79 motor. Dave is correct about the 2V inj motor (1980-1982). The power output was more in the line of 185-190hp, but the biggest problem was the piston rings. Buying one of these now 20+ yrs later is a toss of the dice as to whether or not your engine is a bad one. Some of Ferrari's factory replacements back then had the same problem. A rule of thumb when looking at this type of 308 is to pull the tag off the back and check behind it. If it's greasy back there chances are it has the "bad" motor. | ||
| Dave (Dave)
Member Username: Dave Post Number: 580 Registered: 4-2001 |
Muteki, rather than taking a fantastic sounding carb 308 and spending a small bundle to make it injected, why not trade your's in on a QV if that's your cup of tea. As for the 78 being the worst of the bunch, I think you are mistaken... the 2 valve injected cars were the slowest of the bunch. The fastest of the 308 series was the 1976 model. Less emissions equipment, best performance, and a much better power to weight ratio than the later cars due to the glass body. | ||
| 308 GTS (Muteki)
New member Username: Muteki Post Number: 3 Registered: 8-2003 |
Ok, I have looked through some of these pages that were listed and some of the commnets. I am convinced that the 78 308 GTS stock motor is the wost one in the 308 line. Since I am probably going to replace the entire motor with a new one, now is the best time to upgrade than any. What is the most powerful 308 motor made? The QV? If its not too much more expensive, I would like to go to injected if its not outrageously expensive to convert. What do you guys think? Keep in mind, I am not sitting on a gold mine and I don't have a sponser willing to dump a load of cash into a motor. Thanks guys. | ||
| 308 GTS (Muteki)
New member Username: Muteki Post Number: 2 Registered: 8-2003 |
Wow, you guys have some really impressive set-ups. I have a long way to go, since mine is still stock. Since I have the motor is out of the car at the moment, who makes the best forged pistons, lifters, push rods etc for this. Of course I want something to get more power, but I want something that will be very durable. I don't want to race the car, but when I drive it on Sundays....I don't want to get embarrassed by stock Corvetts...lol Just curious, I was looking at some of these setups and do you guys have to modify the trunk lid to make these fit? They look like they are close to clearance level. I do want to make it faster, but I was to keep it looking stock on the outside. Thanks guys for all the input. You have given me a new hope. =] | ||
| Mark Eberhardt (Me_k)
Member Username: Me_k Post Number: 656 Registered: 5-2002 |
There's been a lot of talk about early carb cars that make 240 hp, and later ones that only make about 205, I think '78 is a 205 year, so going to the early cams would help. With even bigger cams, pistons, porting, exhaust 280-300 seems about right. Norwood does turbos and I think there are 3 guys here that have them, a search should find them. I think they start at about $15k installed for 350-400 hp and $25k will get you 450-600. I've put a blower on mine a couple years ago, it made 360hp. I sold that set-up and am just finishing a higher boost version that should bring it to about 530-600hp. I made one for me and one for a guy in GA. I also just started one for a guy with an injected 2V, it will be the more standard blower on top set up. I don't think it can be done for much under $8k since it require a conversion to EFI. Here's the first one  Here's where I am with the new one, just about ready to paint and install  | ||
| jeff ryerson (Atheyg)
Member Username: Atheyg Post Number: 398 Registered: 8-2002 |
Checkout http://www.geocities.com/spperformancecentere/Ferrari-Power.html A 300+ HP 308 would be nice N/A is the way to go for motor longevity | ||
| '75 308 GT4 (Peter)
Advanced Member Username: Peter Post Number: 3037 Registered: 12-2000 |
Muteki, you will find many threads in this Tech Q&A column, concerning the mods you'd like to do. In fact, there's one fellow here that's in the process of supercharging his 308. I can tell you one thing though, it won't be cheap...  Here's some links to start off with - Exhaust: http://www.ferrarichat.com/discus/messages/251280/149816.html http://www.ferrarichat.com/discus/messages/112/303074.html http://www.ferrarichat.com/discus/messages/256120/245098.html Supercharger threads: http://www.ferrarichat.com/discus/messages/256120/162555.html http://www.ferrarichat.com/discus/messages/256120/227921.html http://www.ferrarichat.com/discus/messages/251280/206182.html Hope this helps... | ||
| 308 GTS (Muteki)
New member Username: Muteki Post Number: 1 Registered: 8-2003 |
Ok, I'm the nOOb in town and was directed to this website by a friend. This is my very first post, hello. I have a 1978 308 GTS, I am curently in a restoration phase due to a car fire. Yeah, lucky me....with a Ferrari that catches fire. Anwyays, the last time I drove the car was in 1999. I am nearing the phase of putting the motor and transaxle back in the car. Now from what recall, my car drove really nice and smooth and sounded great. Only problem is that the car didn't have the power that I wished it did have. Its had the looks and sound, so I am happy. BUT, I want MORE POWER (in my Tim Allen voice). Now, I did upgrade to a DIS ignition with a crank trigger to get rid of the underpowered distributer system. I definately need an exhaust, any recommendations? I also would love to put in a supercharger or a turbo system...without giving up a limb in the process. Does anyone make this for my car at an affordable price? Its best I do the mods now, since the motor bay is very accessible at the moment. Any info, link, or brands would be helpful. I can research once I have a direction to follow. Thanks for your time and I'll be around in the future. |